I've erased this original post because this does not belong in the political section. Move along, nothing to see here. ;)

It's a real shame, Seek. I wish there was more we could do.

It's a real shame, Seek. I wish there was more we could do.

I plan to find some time to show the video to the faculty in the high schools around my town. That and the fact that the virtual dissection programs cost less should push them to drop hands on dissection.

It lacks credibility because PETA's name appeared.

PS I think this would be a political forum candidate and especially since PETA's name appeared

There are no politics involved when it comes to how we treat people, animals or the planet and the enviroment. This is a social and ethical cause, not a political one. PETA is very credible, don't let their opponents under mine what they stand for and what they do.

PETA is very credible:D

You must be joking.

And it is political and if don't think it is political then you must be living in a glass bubble

Politics are in EVERYTHING we do! Look around your place of work! Politics ain't just gettin elected. It's the interaction of US with the US's

Stay on target...

So which political group is pro child abuse

Because how it is handled will involve politics and people will fall into a couple of camps.

In fact "child abuse" has been quite a political issue in one of Australia's states (the most populated state) for some time and this is due to the gov't dept, social welfare benefits for parents etc and etc.

By the way, I don't need to look at any anti PETA websites because I have been a gun owner and shooter all my life.

As a side note, if you go back to the post that owner of the site made when opening the political forum then I think you would agree that this thread is a candidate for the political forum.

If it gets moved then it gets moved, no harm, no foul. At least I don't have to worry about it getting deleted. (At least I'm pretty sure I don't.)

Seeks ..... look at it this way too ...... (you DID read my PM?)

Evangalizing to those who don't want it does little. There is a time and place. This is not the place 3 times in 3 day.

What does owning a gun and shooting with it have to do with any of this?
what does this have to do child abuse?

The Wise One knows the Battles to Fight, and how to win their Due.
Others Learn in time. Either by Choice or by grudge.

This and These kinds of threads belong in the Political Section.
Whether you want to place them there or not. Tom provided it as a place to place things of a controversal nature. THIS is That.


I think you'll do well to agree to the casual agreement, as have several others.

Stay on target...

Then tell Tom to ban me if I am not allowed to spread the news of what I know. I'd rather not be here at all than to shut up about what is important to me. :mad:
You don't have to think you are being shut up to agree to post in a different section. You are not. Nor do You need to Martyr YourSelf. Brave, but You then have ZERO Voice.

Your Earth First Approach is not winnng any points.

You should be making sure your points matter, not just broadcast spray them around. to spray ramdomly is the aim of the Hunter with a Shotgun.
Use an Arrow to get your Point across.

If you used your brain and were genuinely interested in opening the debate you would have it in the political forum.

The fact that you have a video with PETA content and a shooter on the same thread and you don't see the relationship betweem them does indicate you live in a glass bubble.

PETA, in case you did not know, is a strong political lobby group and not just in the US of A. It is also well documented that they have carried out (or have had carried out for them) many acts of animal cruelty for video of photo purposes.

I couldn't watch the entire video Seek, it was to disturbing.

If you used your brain and were genuinely interested in opening the debate you would have it in the political forum.

The fact that you have a video with PETA content and a shooter on the same thread and you don't see the relationship betweem them does indicate you live in a glass bubble.

PETA, in case you did not know, is a strong political lobby group and not just in the US of A. It is also well documented that they have carried out (or have had carried out for them) many acts of animal cruelty for video of photo purposes.
Mike, it's even better documented that Videos like this and others, captured over the past 30+ years and more, show these things are indeed happening, as well as all the other Animal Cruelity and Slaughterhouse stuff. EVERYONE can show their point about this issue. there's even mas ammounts of video of Men and Women Killing other Men and Women, sometimes quite heinously. for photo ops too.

This isn't about Credibility or Glass Bubbles. It IS however about carring this (and other impassioned ideals) over to the Political Section. There? it's slash and Burn Baby, if that is your Intent.

Seek,

Gently, ol'chap! Softly, softly, catchee monkey!

Arguing about which forum your post should be in takes the attention off what you want the attention to be on.

So let it go. Let the others fight amongst themselves but don't you add to the flames. If I understand the situation correctly, only Tom can move a thread, anyway. But you would rather have it here, right?

The more you argue the more attention is brought to the arguing and the more likely Tom is to move it. That's not your outcome, I think.

If you keep quiet, now. The others will likely stop, too, and Tom is likely to leave it where it is.

Then you can come back in due time with another.

Being sneaky has much to commend it!

so does being upfront about it.

so does being upfront about it.Oh! You were listening!! Drat!

Yes, indeed. Being upfront is definitely worthy advice. But sneaky works too sometimes.

Stay on target...

Sneaky works where appropriate.

a Kill video is not Sneak. nor is a mis-titled thread (not sayin'!)
they are IN-YOUR-FACE MOFO!

Molasses and Honey catches Flys
as do Flytraps,
but so does Light

Seeks ..... Perfection is not in Proof. Perfection is in Doing and BEing.

Animal Rights started as a Responsibility to the LOVE of all life.
Your Passion is evident, but right now, You are giving or showing very little of that Love for all Life right now.

Attraction Dude. It works for the Positive AND the Negative.
Use it to Your advantage.

...Molasses and Honey catches Flys
as do Flytraps,
but so does LightEeee! I like that! It's clever!

Must remember it.

~ :D ~

Seek,

Gently, ol'chap! Softly, softly, catchee monkey!

Arguing about which forum your post should be in takes the attention off what you want the attention to be on.

So let it go. Let the others fight amongst themselves but don't you add to the flames. If I understand the situation correctly, only Tom can move a thread, anyway. But you would rather have it here, right?

The more you argue the more attention is brought to the arguing and the more likely Tom is to move it. That's not your outcome, I think.

If you keep quiet, now. The others will likely stop, too, and Tom is likely to leave it where it is.

Then you can come back in due time with another.

Being sneaky has much to commend it!

You're right of course, they're just trying to hijack my thread because it makes them uncomfortable. It shouldn't really, we're talking about a change that would be great for everyone except for the owners and employees of two little companies. Some people see the name PETA though and they have a knee jerk reaction. Anyway the whole issue of where this belongs is up to Tom, I acknowledge as much up front. I want to see this in a social issues section if it has to be moved rather than a political one because I am not trying to have a political based debate over dissection.

Not everyone who shoots a gun shoots animals you know

A very small minority and any many cases tha is only because of lack of opportunity.

I don't have to prove anything.....that is your department... you are the bloke with something to sell and using the video as a sales presentation. Assuming it is for real then you have to convince people to either stop eating meat and/or consuming other animal products as currently delivered to them.

Actually, if PETA was for real they would be very pro gun/hunting because each deer etc taken with a bullet is one less cow etc that has to go through the production line. However, I can assure you that are very very very very anti gun/hunting.

Who exactly is "They?" Me? Mike? Spider? Black Belt? InnerLight?
That video is nothing in the way of uncomfortale. It one version of Truth, just like a Whale Hunt is to the Alliute.

Again, whether or not you WANT to engage in a "political debate" ..... you ARE.

I couldn't watch the entire video Seek, it was to disturbing.

I understand, I have had a hard time with many of them myself. But I always come away being more aware and ready to actually do something to help. I hope you will as well.

Not everyone who shoots a gun shoots animals you know

A very small minority and any many cases tha is only because of lack of opportunity.

I don't have to prove anything.....that is your department... you are the bloke with something to sell and using the video as a sales presentation. Assuming it is for real then you have to convince people to either stop eating meat and/or consuming other animal products as currently delivered to them.

Actually, if PETA was for real they would be very pro gun/hunting because each deer etc taken with a bullet is one less cow etc that has to go through the production line. However, I can assure you that are very very very very anti gun/hunting.

One more vegan is one less deer and cow that has to be killed for your supper. The founder of the Vegan Society lived to be 95 and those who don't eat meat live longer than most people. But all of that is beside the point since this video deals with using animals for education, not for food. If you want to debate the other issues, then start your own thread and quit hijacking mine. Don't come out here, make a point and then say you don't have to offer proof. That is pretty weak, especially since the video footage (which you undoubtedly have not watched) is crystal clear. This thread was created to provide information and the possibility of giving feedback for those who have watched the video and nothing else. Take your smear campaign into your own thread, it does not belong here.

Try this forum

http://forum.lowcarber.org/index.php?

5 times the membership of the AR site and heaps more activity and they are all animal food and egg eaters.

Who exactly is "They?" Me? Mike? Spider? Black Belt? InnerLight?
That video is nothing in the way of uncomfortale. It one version of Truth, just like a Whale Hunt is to the Alliute.

Again, whether or not you WANT to engage in a "political debate" ..... you ARE.

As of right now I'm ending it as well. If you want to do anything other than provide feedback after watching the video, then please start your own thread. I have no desire to see this thread being taken off topic any more.

If you believe that any thread will stay on exactly one single issue out of a whole range of related issues then you must be very new to bulletin boards.

Someone introduced child abuse to the thread. I assume that was someone who had access to your password etc

No :spam: for me thank you, I'm a vegetarian.

As of right now I'm ending it as well. If you want to do anything other than provide feedback after watching the video, then please start your own thread. I have no desire to see this thread being taken off topic any more.
I think You will want to understand who Your Friends are. Not everyone is out to get you. or Animals. or Cruelity. or whatever. Some of us ACTUALLY want to Help You. But You have to actually understand that, and ACCEPT that help.

USE the Force Luke. Don't let it use You.

But I always come away being more aware and ready to actually do something to help.

If you were for real you would be posting on the forum I gave you rather than wasting energy on a small site like this one. That type of site should be your target because of its large size and they are animal product consumers.

I think You will want to understand who Your Friends are. Not everyone is out to get you. or Animals. or Cruelity. or whatever. Some of us ACTUALLY want to Help You. But You have to actually understand that, and ACCEPT that help.

USE the Force Luke. Don't let it use You.

I know that some here see me as a friend and are actually trying to help and I am grateful. I just get angry when people dismiss something real simply because they don't like the group that presents the information. That is what we call being prejudice and I can not abide it. Even if people totally dismiss the footage, then they still have to consider the fact that virtual dissection will save money for every school that already has comptuers. Why anyone would not want to save their school money is beyond me.

I think You are still missing MY point, if all those "You"s had anything to do with Me.

That is what we call being prejudice and I can not abide it.
prejudice is 38 different views seen from both sides of the same coin.

But I always come away being more aware and ready to actually do something to help.

If you were for real you would be posting on the forum I gave you rather than wasting energy on a small site like this one. That type of site should be your target because of its large size and they are animal product consumers.

I am looking for feedback on the video from the friends I've made on the TR board and the news ones I'm bound to make here. This is less about reaching as large a number of people as possible than sharing what I have learned with a few whose opinions I value. The forum you mentioned would actually give me less of an audience than youtube has with other videos I've posted. The ten videos I've put up on youtube currently have a combined total of 31,667 views. I seriously doubt that one forum would ever match those numbers.

I think You are still missing MY point, if all those "You"s had anything to do with Me.

The post has been edited to reflect its true meaning.

The video you put up so far has nine views and no comments. You have done better here.

Perhaps the big forum will give you more insight into "the enemy" and of course potential converts.

By the way, what counts with youtube is the number of comments in relation to the number of views.

I am looking for feedback on the video from the friends I've made on the TR board and the news ones I'm bound to make here. This is less about reaching as large a number of people as possible than sharing what I have learned with a few whose opinions I value. The forum you mentioned would actually give me less of an audience than youtube has with other videos I've posted. The ten videos I've put up on youtube currently have a combined total of 31,667 views. I seriously doubt that one forum would ever match those numbers.
Feedback?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 ~ 3.5 Million Views

More Feedback? You say it isn't about the numbers, but You cite numbers.

More Feedback? USE Your Zealous Passion, or it will Use You.

The video you put up so far has nine views and no comments. You have done better here.

Perhaps the big forum will give you more insight into "the enemy" and of course potential converts.

By the way, what counts with youtube is the number of comments in relation to the number of views.

That isn't really true since other sites can link to the videos. Most people who see a video on another site either don't know how to get back to that video on the original site, or they have no desire to go there for whatever reason. Usually people tend to watch a video and not leave any comments. This seems to happen more with videos that aren't light hearted fun fests like the ones I've posted.

I really don't see low carb dieters as the enemy since they're usually asleep when it comes to what is going on, just like I was for most of my life. (Yes, I knew about some issues, but I could shove them aside as not being important to me since my own desires did not include extendeding my circle of compassion.) The true enemies are the owners, execs and PR people who work for industries such fur, meat, dairy and eggs. These people do have a divide and conqueror system set in place that they've been using for roughly 15 years, you can read about it in this month's Satya magazine. You'd have to buy a copy though and look for an article called Invasion of the Movement Snatchers: A Social Justice Cause Falls Prey to the Doctrine of “Necessary Evil” By James LaVeck. So getting into the heads of the enemy is alot more complicated and difficult than just jumping onto a message board. But I think I understand them rather well since I have been looking into the corporate mentality off and on for years.

Try selling PETA and Co to a fox in Austalia.

There use to be abot 400,000 foxes shot each year out here. Some by full time professionals but most by hunters who used the skins to pay for the shooting trip.

These days the big numbers are not shot because of the low skin price which of course is a spin off from animal lib etc. However, they are still a pest and now they are poisoned with 1080. Here is a link to 1080 and its from an animal lib site. When they were shot they were dead on the spot in the spotlight. Always two sides to the equation. By the way, even if people did not eat meat and thus have sheep etc the foxes are still a big problem for native wildlife, so even if we all became vegetarian the foxes would be poisoned.

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/1080/1080.shtml

Feedback?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 ~ 3.5 Million Views

More Feedback? You say it isn't about the numbers, but You cite numbers.

More Feedback? USE Your Zealous Passion, or it will Use You.

There is alot less controversy in a video like that one than in what I've presented. People are far more apt to click on something that doesn't make them feel bad in some way after hearing about it from someone else. Also if the main stream media picks up on a story and/or the video gets featured, then the number of views will sky rocket. The one you linked to is nothing compared to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg with nearly 34 and a half million views. So I'd be better off getting the videos into the main stream media some how if I really wanted people to see it. Being featured on youtube would help my views as well. But they go by ratings, they don't go by the number of comments. It is also up to the staff and what they like. 99 percent of the time they pick videos that don't have some controversy attached to them. I have never seen one being featured that was as serious as a PETA or anti-child abuse video.

That video has 10 times the views but only the same number of comments. That tells me that people only looked and did not have any involvement

So are you going for Controversy or Education?

Or are You just looking to be right?

So are you going for Controversy or Education?

Or are You just looking to be right?

I always aim for education and action that will lead to reform, or at least the start of it.

Seeksperfection, I am not asking you to defend the statement of someone else but I beleive that this man you have quoted has a conflict of interest issue. If you buy into his statement then this will be a question for you; If we are all animals then why is it ok for a lion to kill a waterbuffulo or for a bird to kill a worm or for an ant to kill a centepede? Also, what do you do when an ant or cockroach wonders into your house? Do you squash it, shoosh it out or let them stay because after all, you are living in their territory. Also, why isn't PETA protesting the Raid company for manufacturing devices that kill millions and millions of small ants and (forgive me) "pests" each year. Does PETA only stand up for the rights of larger animals? If so, does this mean that PETA is discriminatory against smaller animals?
Yes Seeksperfection, I was getting a little sarcastic at the end their but only to make a point. This gets a little illogical and silly when you apply the ideology of the likes of PETA in a broader area. It is unfortunate that PETA has soiled its reputation by making the most ludicrous claims I have ever heard. In fact, sometimes I think I am watching a Saturday Night Live skit when I hear about the latest claim by PETA. There is much good PETA could do but they have such a laughable reputation that they can not be taken seriously. Sorry sp.
Junto

I just did a google search to amuse myself and I found a site that highlighted one of PETA's more "interesting" claims. This just in......."wolves are inhumane killers and murderers of the innocent."

PETA spokesperson Hans Graineater was the author of a position paper which led up to the latest press release. In part, it reads:
"Each year, millions of snowshoe hairs, bunnies, sheep, mice, barnyard kitties and other cute furry animals are pursued, subjected to the most vile torture, and then slaughtered by thousands of European wolves, American timber wolves and coyotes around the world. This horrible deed is usually done so the wolves can consume the poor creatures, but not always. Wolves often hunt in gangs, and sometimes they kill just for fun.

I am speachless guys, give it up for PETA.
Junto

I just did a google search to amuse myself and I found a site that highlighted one of PETA's more "interesting" claims. This just in......."wolves are inhumane killers and murderers of the innocent."

PETA spokesperson Hans Graineater was the author of a position paper which led up to the latest press release. In part, it reads:
"Each year, millions of snowshoe hairs, bunnies, sheep, mice, barnyard kitties and other cute furry animals are pursued, subjected to the most vile torture, and then slaughtered by thousands of European wolves, American timber wolves and coyotes around the world. This horrible deed is usually done so the wolves can consume the poor creatures, but not always. Wolves often hunt in gangs, and sometimes they kill just for fun.

I am speachless guys, give it up for PETA.
Junto

That article was satire, plain and simple. Not very funny satire, but satire none the less. The name Hans Graineater is a dead give away.

PETA is destroying your brain.

You changed you thread starting post to:

I've erased this original post because this does not belong in the political section. Move along, nothing to see here.

Yet you are responding to posts on the the thread:hmm:

You changed you thread starting post to:

I've erased this original post because this does not belong in the political section. Move along, nothing to see here.

Seeks .... disappointed Dude.

VERY FEW people are going to play by your rules exclusively. Probably none actually.
Learn to play IN the World, not against it.

Seeksperfection, I am not asking you to defend the statement of someone else but I beleive that this man you have quoted has a conflict of interest issue. If you buy into his statement then this will be a question for you; If we are all animals then why is it ok for a lion to kill a waterbuffulo or for a bird to kill a worm or for an ant to kill a centepede? Also, what do you do when an ant or cockroach wonders into your house? Do you squash it, shoosh it out or let them stay because after all, you are living in their territory. Also, why isn't PETA protesting the Raid company for manufacturing devices that kill millions and millions of small ants and (forgive me) "pests" each year. Does PETA only stand up for the rights of larger animals? If so, does this mean that PETA is discriminatory against smaller animals?
Yes Seeksperfection, I was getting a little sarcastic at the end their but only to make a point. This gets a little illogical and silly when you apply the ideology of the likes of PETA in a broader area. It is unfortunate that PETA has soiled its reputation by making the most ludicrous claims I have ever heard. In fact, sometimes I think I am watching a Saturday Night Live skit when I hear about the latest claim by PETA. There is much good PETA could do but they have such a laughable reputation that they can not be taken seriously. Sorry sp.
Junto

The screen name is seekperfection, not seeksperfection. PETA only has a laughable reputation with people who fail to resaerch the claims against them. Those who actually study the group have a much higher regard for them than those who base their point of view on hearsay, conjecture and sixth hand gossip. What quote are you talking about anyway? I have not quoted a member of PETA in this thread. If you're talking about the one in my sig, that is by a member of the group All for Animals. http://www.allforanimals.com/ They are not PETA any more than McDonalds is Burger King.

It is sad to know that you are unable to differentiate between genuine news and a show that presents scripted material under the guise of being humorous. I am glad that not everyone fails to comprehend what they are seeing, as in your case, since PETA's work has been used to expose companies and their cruelty numerous times in the media. You might wish to consult your teachers and parents for further instruction on concepts like fiction and non-fiction, I'm sure that their insight will prove very valuable to you in the future. I wish you the best of luck in your studies.

PETA is destroying your brain.

You changed you thread starting post to:

I've erased this original post because this does not belong in the political section. Move along, nothing to see here.

Yet you are responding to posts on the the thread:hmm:

I'm entertaining myself at this point. There is no harm in that.

Seeks .... disappointed Dude.

VERY FEW people are going to play by your rules exclusively. Probably none actually.
Learn to play IN the World, not against it.

Some times you're better off taking your ball and going home.

Some times you're better off taking your ball and going home.
Then You're on the Court a helluva alot less. and because of that, You hafta wait until someone actually WANTS to play with you. But You'll probably miss the opportunity because You're inside moping, and You don't see them.

It's You're move. Like I said, it's a very disappointing move.
theres faaaaaar more than one person that has the same ball as you do. it's round, and it bounces THEIR WAY, because they're still on the court. Playing.

Some times you're better off taking your ball and going home.

Do you normally fall over so easy or is it just a case that your support for the cause you have outlined is only half baked?

It is becoming obvious why you are so big on having a "social forum"......you need to have something where you only need to engage in a gentle manner.....

The screen name is seekperfection, not seeksperfection. PETA only has a laughable reputation with people who fail to resaerch the claims against them. Those who actually study the group have a much higher regard for them than those who base their point of view on hearsay, conjecture and sixth hand gossip. What quote are you talking about anyway? I have not quoted a member of PETA in this thread. If you're talking about the one in my sig, that is by a member of the group All for Animals. http://www.allforanimals.com/ They are not PETA any more than McDonalds is Burger King.

It is sad to know that you are unable to differentiate between genuine news and a show that presents scripted material under the guise of being humorous. I am glad that not everyone fails to comprehend what they are seeing, as in your case, since PETA's work has been used to expose companies and their cruelty numerous times in the media. You might wish to consult your teachers and parents for further instruction on concepts like fiction and non-fiction, I'm sure that their insight will prove very valuable to you in the future. I wish you the best of luck in your studies.

I don't really are whom the author of the quote works for. I would like a serious answer to the questions I posted. How far does this go?
Junto

Some times you're better off taking your ball and going home.

Do you normally fall over so easy or is it just a case that your support for the cause you have outlined is only half baked?

It is becoming obvious why you are so big on having a "social forum"......you need to have something where you only need to engage in a gentle manner.....

I've never been interested in lengthy political debates. Go to the TR forum and look at the political threads. You'll see that I contributed to very few of them. The longer the post on a political topic, the less likely it had a comment from me because I did not read them. You pointed out that it was a big waste for me to spend my time and energy on such matters here. Now that I agree with you and bow out of wasting my time you try attacking me. My support for my cause is not half baked, but my support and tolerance of any message board is after my experiences of the past few weeks with the TR board. I have slowly started to realize that they are as big of a time waster as chat rooms. Last night I sat down and watched the movie Network after spending a short amount of time here. I will find ways to spend my time without being on message boards in the future as I slowly ween myself away from them.

Now that I agree with you and bow out of wasting my time you try attacking me.

But you went opposite my advice and doubly so with a PETA based posting.

If you are going to do a PETA post and then fold it can only be because these type of postings are not your cup of tea or your support for the topic is low. I guess a third option is a muixture of those two.

I have had a lot do with political forums on the guns/hunting sites and those who frequent them all have a couple of things in common:

1) They can type fast and knock out the posting real quick.

2) They could not give a flying f* about what anyone thinks.

3) They are continually in attack mode when on those forums.

Whether the above is right, wrong or indifferent is irrelevant because it is a reality.