Let me pose this question to everyone. Again, this is an offshoot of the "what is success" question. But, I will phrase it this way: What makes for a successful life?

If you manage to get rich, but wreck your marriage, and health, is that a successful life?

If you find a way to get rich quick, but never improve as a person, is this a successful life?

If you manage to come up with a piece of artwork that is appreciated for centuries (after you died), and you died broke, and in poor health, and your spouse left you, is that a successful life?

Would you be willing to go broke for the chance to become famous?

Would I life that ends with a person on a beach, sipping mararetas all day, on a hammock, be considered a success? How about with a small yacht and fishing?

Again, what exactly is success? I see a bunch of people who just want more money, thinking that is what they need. But plenty of lottery winners have blown their riches within a few years of getting the money.

- Richard

If you ask 100 people this question, chances are pretty fair you would get 110 different replies.

Success is subjective, and as such can be stated, but individual success is much like beauty - it's all in the eye of the beholder.

It's kinda like a little shirt shopping experience with my former wife
"That blouse is beautiful! It's perfect! But .... what would make it better are different buttons, more lace on the collar, a slightly whiter shade, but other than that, it's perfect!"

And as this shows, even the perfect (substitute "Success" if you wish) can be different for the same person.

Success? It's a subjective call.

I think most people will say that they are more successful in some areas and less successful in others.

Wealth and fame may be byproducts of success. For example when one makes great achievements in the arts.

Or they may actually be success when they are the goal.

However, if say wealth is the goal and it's achieved, the person was successful in that area of their life. They may have destroyed other things in the process though, in which case they would be a failure in those areas.

To me, it is much harder to determine what a successful life is than it is to determine what success is as it applies to a specific event or goal.

I think if anyone can look back on their life and say that they are happy with what they have done and don't really have any regrets, then in my opinion that is a successful life.

As mentioned, it would be unlikely for anyone to say they have been successful in all areas of their life.... in fact I believe that this is what makes it so worthwhile when we do succeed in the more positive areas of our lives.

success is different for the childless person as opposed the the person with child in tow.

it is different for everyone because we all have different upbringings and life experiences.

what does success mean to the battered woman, the bullied child at school, the innocent victim of an armed robbery, a rape victim, a drug addict, the family of a murdered person?

what does success mean to an undertaker, a school yard cleaner, a bhuddist monk?

what IS success?

In my view, success is a journey of accomplishments on a daily basis. it is about achieving favorable outcomes - no matter how big or small. success is being happy, content, ethical.

success is NOT about wanting what someone else has (envy), it is not about accumulating wealth without a social conciousness, it is not about pride.

And if you happen to become extremely wealthy from a financial standpoint, find a charity that deals with improving the origins of a better society.

I think most people will say that they are more successful in some areas and less successful in others.

Wealth and fame may be byproducts of success. For example when one makes great achievements in the arts.

I am reminded of a line from "Ed TV" (I think this is the movie. It came on roughly same time as "The Truman Show", but is worthy on its own merits). In the movie, a commentator makes a comment how, in the past, people became famous because of their virtue. But, today, fame is considered a virtue unto itself. Interesting comment on the power of media.

Also, there are multitudes of people who succeed at things but don't get rich. There is the artist whose work is only recognized AFTER they die. Soren Kerkengaard's writings only became popular after his death, when an agonstic reviewer managed to give positive praise of his writings in a literary review. Success one gets wealthy at is success that people are willing to pay money to be a part of. They want what you have and are willing to pay you for it. Getting wealthy has its own set of rules to succeed that differ than other areas. Well, maybe I should say, "own set of tactics" because success in general has some universal rules associated with it, no matter what area.

- Richard Hutnik

How I view success is this: A person is a success if they define for themself what they want in life (which includes multiple areas of life) and are able to achieve that.

The most successful people have success in more than one area of life. People who are only successful in one area are successful, but only in a limited way. And people who are not succesful in any area are unsuccessful. Also, people who haven't defined what they want in life are also not successful by default.

Now, we can group people together by common goal and compare people. For example, we can group people who are business owners and compare who is more successful based on a variety of variables. We can group parents togther and compare who is more successful in raising their children and use various variables for that. But I would not say that we could compare business success with success at being a parent since that is like comparing apples and oranges. Sure, apples and oranges are both fruit, but you really can't say one is better than the other since they a different things. Sure, you may prefer one over the other, but that doesn't make one better than the other. It is the same with success. One type of success is not better than the other, it is just different.

Now, being successful at living would mean, to me, being successful in multiple areas of life, and going out and learning and experiencing the world to the fullest. Now this would be the most challenging type of success, I would think.

It's all in the definition, or put another way, the type of success you are talking about.

Now, being successful at living would mean, to me, being successful in multiple areas of life, and going out and learning and experiencing the world to the fullest. Now this would be the most challenging type of success, I would think.

Yes, I agree with this. It is very challenging to step out of the comfort zone and try to learn and experience new things.... particularly if they are difficult. One of my goals is to learn and experience as much as possible in various areas of life, such as career (IT), sport, music and world travel. If I can do these things I will die a happy man. :yup:

IAFPO, you always seem to think things through a bit more than me. i'm the type of person who shoots from the hip, and i appreciate your moderation. just thought i'd let you know.

How I view success is this: A person is a success if they define for themself what they want in life (which includes multiple areas of life) and are able to achieve that.

The most successful people have success in more than one area of life. People who are only successful in one area are successful, but only in a limited way. And people who are not succesful in any area are unsuccessful. Also, people who haven't defined what they want in life are also not successful by default.


I tend to agree with this post also. I feel that untill I was able to define what I wanted in life I couldn't be successful. And it seems unless a person is super "intune" that don't come but for time, age and wisdom.
For my whole life, I had an ideal what society views as successful and how the successful person goes about getting there but untill I realized what it is that I want, I could never be truely successful.
I think that success is a series thing. It is a matter of smaller personal acheivments that make up the whole pie called "success"

Kerri

success is a journey, not a goal.

goals (not unlike orgasms) are an anti-climax. what now???

if you ever reach a gaol without having re-assessed the situation prior, you haven't set them high enough.

can this be true?

Let me pose this question to
everyone. Again, this is an offshoot of the "what is
success" question. But, I will phrase it this way: What
makes for a successful life?

If you manage to get rich, but wreck your marriage, and
health, is that a successful life?

If you find a way to get rich quick, but never improve
as a person, is this a successful life?

If you manage to come up with a piece of artwork that
is appreciated for centuries (after you died), and you
died broke, and in poor health, and your spouse left
you, is that a successful life?

Would you be willing to go broke for the chance to
become famous?

Would I life that ends with a person on a beach,
sipping mararetas all day, on a hammock, be considered
a success? How about with a small yacht and fishing?

Again, what exactly is success? I see a bunch of people
who just want more money, thinking that is what they
need. But plenty of lottery winners have blown their
riches within a few years of getting the money.

- Richard

Those who can craft their life like a work of art are
successful.

They don't "live" their life. They create their life.

It has to do with the control they can achieve over
their life.

It's very idealistic. So much, that those achieving
this are too busy showing the way, to have time to ask
themselves if this is being successful or not.

They just notice they're living something totally
different from the average and they're just eager to
bring this way of living in the mainstream.

Make it a lifetime goal to learn how you can control
your life. All your life. And you'll be on your way.

That's my thought for today,

mario

That's my thought for today,




And what a great thought it is!

And what a great thought it is!

Yep, nicely said. I guess it's all about being proactive and taking charge of the things we are able to control.

IAFPO, you always seem to think things through a bit more than me. i'm the type of person who shoots from the hip, and i appreciate your moderation. just thought i'd let you know.
Thanks. :D

Yeah, I tend to be a thinker. I also usually think for awhile before I say something. I sound smarter that way since I could figure out the best way to say it before I said it. And it sure beats putting my foot in my mouth (which I have done on occasion). ;)
I tend to agree with this post also. I feel that untill I was able to define what I wanted in life I couldn't be successful. And it seems unless a person is super "intune" that don't come but for time, age and wisdom.
For my whole life, I had an ideal what society views as successful and how the successful person goes about getting there but untill I realized what it is that I want, I could never be truely successful.
I think that success is a series thing. It is a matter of smaller personal acheivments that make up the whole pie called "success"
That, I think, is the biggest challenge that most people face in life: how to be yourselves despite society and everyone around you telling you to be like them. Now, there is nothing wrong with being like everyone else, but you should be that way for you, not for them.

The most successful person in the world is a person who is themselves. Of course, everyone else would probably think he is a failure, but hey. That person would be enjoying their life, while everyone else in complaining that their life isn't what they intended.

Kerri, you don't have to figure out what you want in life, you only need to get in touch with who you are. Once you do that, your life work will become clear.

To quote a great man:


To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and to endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others; to leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.Something to think about.

"Don't worry about what the world needs. Ask what makes
you come alive and do that. Because what the world
needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman

I have recenty had an epiphany about what constitutes sucess, I dont have time to describe it now (ill make a new thread in a day or so to explain how i came to it...actually this makes it sound a lot deeper than it really is!)

But to me sucess is...if your life was to end now, right now, could you look your god (whom ever that may be, and for some it may be your reflection) and say i took all the stuff you gave me, the skills, the help, the challenges and I think i did something pretty cool with it. If you can could look him striaght in the eye with the full knowledge of your life, then you have success.

My epiphany was the reaslisation that you CANNOT compare sucess, it IS NOT relative to other people, just as it is not defined by others...but more on this another day when it isnt so late!

p.s can soemone save this, as it may be the most profound thing Ive ever written in my life (thatll be the cheap german lager :) )

That puts it in perspective. If, at the end of your life, you can look yourself in the eye and/or look God in the eye and say you've used your talents wisely, then you are successful.

I think if a lot of people used that standard, there would be many people who are successful that we would not think so just by looking, and there are many people we think are successful that really wouldn't be using that criteria.

But to me sucess is...if your life was to end now, right now, could you look your god (whom ever that may be, and for some it may be your reflection) and say i took all the stuff you gave me, the skills, the help, the challenges and I think i did something pretty cool with it. If you can could look him striaght in the eye with the full knowledge of your life, then you have success.



My epiphany was the reaslisation that you CANNOT compare sucess, it IS NOT relative to other people, just as it is not defined by others...but more on this another day when it isnt so late!


Problem: How can someone improve something only by looking back ?
I think from a practical standpoint that someone looking back can only remain at the same point. How can one develop creativity only by looking back ? What risks does such an approach authorize ?

Success is such a fundamental process in life to me that it authorizes mistakes, risk taking, and forward looking at all times. Success is life. And life is success to me.

Think if you and me were in the wilderness, in early times: every minute of survival is by itself a success.

The same thing happens in a war zone: why do those soldiers look so proud ?
They are surviving! And this, in a war zone is a definition of success.

How can someone survive looking back ? No way. The minute you will not be looking forward, someone else will get you. Be it a predator or an ennemy.

This is for the looking forward.

Success is usually defined in relation with a particular goal or definition.

How can someone define a goal for his life just by looking backward ?
How would you define what you would like for the future if you only look backwards ?

I don't see how. Because to me, the future must be better than today in some way. Otherwise why bother ? What's the issue ?

There must be one reason for me to get up and do something. Otherwise it's better to sit down and relax.

This reason to do something for me, is to find how to improve something for the future. And this, sorry, I can't find it by looking backwards in the past. I have to imagin the future and think of what would make somekind of a difference in that vision of the future I have.

And, why not, let's face it. I want that future to please me. And that's perfectly legitimate to me because that's what will give me the energy I will need to carry my effort to improve things for the future.

If me and my tastes are not involved in the future of my life, it is very possible the goals and ideas of somebody else could find their way in directing my life for me.

As for non comparability of success, I have no problem whatsoever with this.
If success was comparable, there would be one definition of success and no need to have everybody around looking for that one success.

Successes are not more comparable than the diversity of the genes we carry. Everyone has talents that are unique to them that must be developed to reach successes that are unique for everyone who dares to push back the barriers of their possibilities.

Those are my 2 cents today

"Don't worry about what the world needs. Ask what makes
you come alive and do that. Because what the world
needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman

Again, a great quote.

I'm going to add a 3rd approach to this arguement, and say that the PRESENT is the most important thing.

Sure, the future's important so you know where you're going. But look at people like, I don't know, take the English footballer, Rooney (to take a topical example.) His success is not made by him looking into the future, thinking about the money and fame he'll get from scoring goals. It comes from him concentrating on the moment, GETTING that goal in the first place, THE HERE AND NOW. He seems modest, but he's actually just focussed. Ignoring his ego, he concentrates on getting the job done. If the rest of the England team did that we might not have lost against Portugal tonight.....

Anyway...

I see the future as a distraction from the present, although it's essential to have goals and know where you're going, it's important these goals aren't above your station. The goal should be the first thing you think of, which should be broken down into the small tasks needed to accomplish it. Then you concentrate on these tasks.

To summarise:
Too much effort and time is spent thinking about what the goal might accomplish and not enough effort and time is spent on accomplishing the goal.

"Don't worry about what the world needs. Ask what makes
you come alive and do that. Because what the world
needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman

Again, a great quote.

I'm going to add a 3rd approach to this arguement, and say that the PRESENT is the most important thing.

Sure, the future's important so you know where you're going. But look at people like, I don't know, take the English footballer, Rooney (to take a topical example.) His success is not made by him looking into the future, thinking about the money and fame he'll get from scoring goals. It comes from him concentrating on the moment, GETTING that goal in the first place, THE HERE AND NOW. He seems modest, but he's actually just focussed. Ignoring his ego, he concentrates on getting the job done. If the rest of the England team did that we might not have lost against Portugal tonight.....

Anyway...

I see the future as a distraction from the present, although it's essential to have goals and know where you're going, it's important these goals aren't above your station. The goal should be the first thing you think of, which should be broken down into the small tasks needed to accomplish it. Then you concentrate on these tasks.

To summarise:
Too much effort and time is spent thinking about what the goal might accomplish and not enough effort and time is spent on accomplishing the goal.
I would say that for my part I don't much have control on the present. Except on its intensity.
There's not much I can shape in the present. Think about it: much of what constitutes the "present" is shaped and influenced by factors out of my control.

But the future, is something all inside my mind. I can control exactly every aspect of the vision I have of the future. And nobody has the simplest clue about it. No influence but mine.

And then I can choose something that would have a notable impact in that vision and start to do it right away. Before the future happens.

People notice, get curious and interested. Something new. Ask what's that is all about and get even more interested. You see what's coming ?

And nobody can say it's not "true", nobody knows the future. And trying to describe a vision, some people get paid $2.50 a word (http://www.mrfire.com/fees.html) to do that. So there's no problem having a vision today.

And talking about your friend the English footballer, Rooney, did you know that winning first is in the mind ? Those stars are constantly seing themselves winning the next game(s) against each and every of their opponents. That's forming a vision of the future too. It's just a different vision then the life insurance broker's vision seeing himself finally selling that life insurance contract to that rich businessman who so far said no for 5 years...

Do you know olympic teams have psychologists hired to teach them seeing themselves winning. And that's maybe the most important part of their training because it has an impact on all the rest of what they're doing, training included ?

Everything starts in the mind before getting out in the reality.

Entire industries like the media, the film industry, the computer industry, and you can find more, exist only in the mind of those who use them.

The cave people used to paint the bulls and antilopes they would hunt the next summer when they were stuck in their caves in the winter. It provided them with food for tought for better and different ways to hunt their preys.

Man has more brain capacity the he immediately needs. And this has two consequences: first he develops huge imagination capacities (and dreams all the time). Second, he must use that brain capacity otherwise that brain capacity will use him.

Ever heard about the devil ? Monsters ? The hell ? This is what happens when that excessive brain capacity of man gets out of control.

Better think of the future. Even if rosy, it's better than creating scary monsters. Because the brain will work anyway. It won't wait for you.

Mario

What a great arguement. I totally agree with what you are saying, but I have a slightly different take on it.

You do need goals and visions, but like I say, once you have them, you should concentrate on achieving them.

I'm constantly distracted from my studying by thinking about what it will bring me. I almost failed my driving test because I was distracted by the huge benefits it would bring me. But I got focussed on the job at hand and got it done, and I passed.

All I'm saying is, don't let your visions be distractions. Have them, plan the steps needed to achieve them, and then put the possible results of them out of your mind, just focus on the achievement itself.

What a great arguement. I totally agree with what you are saying, but I have a slightly different take on it.

You do need goals and visions, but like I say, once you have them, you should concentrate on achieving them.

I'm constantly distracted from my studying by thinking about what it will bring me. I almost failed my driving test because I was distracted by the huge benefits it would bring me. But I got focussed on the job at hand and got it done, and I passed.

All I'm saying is, don't let your visions be distractions. Have them, plan the steps needed to achieve them, and then put the possible results of them out of your mind, just focus on the achievement itself.
Build the architecture of skills you need to live up to your dreams.

Write about what your studying will bring you, and after this, act on that.

Write about the huge benefits passing your driving test, it will organize your vision, and act on that vision.

The real work begins after the vision. That's why having the best vision possible is essential. You cannot waste efforts on a vision that could be better refined. For that you have to be able to write it (remember the $2.50 a word ?). Once you have a description you are happy with, you can start acting on it.

Doing this, you acquire the disciplin you need to build yourself a life where you won't need somebody to tell you what to do. No boss.

From whom do you think Bill Gates takes his orders ? From his visions. There's nobody higher than him in his field. So his directions have to come from his visions and from his imagination. Constantly. Even with all the counselling staff that's working for him.

Of course, with all the money it brings him, he can afford a few mistakes...

Have you ever heard how it was important in the kingdom when the Pharaoh had a vision in his dream ? It is the only way to run the country when you dominate the world. He then had an army of servants to carry on the implementation of that vision for him. We don't have those numerous servants anymore, but the principle remains the same. If you don't want the dreams of others to rule your life, you must use your own.

Remember that the computer you're typing on, the tv set you look at everyday, the car you would like to drive, and almost all what you can see in your home, were dreams at their beginning.

If you don't learn to live up to your dreams, you will still have to live up to the dreams of others like Thomas Edison, Henry Ford or others and you will be in competition with those trying to do the same.

If you use your own dreams, you have no competition.

mario

Wow...Great post Mario!

Doing this, you acquire the disciplin you need to build yourself a life where you won't need somebody to tell you what to do. No boss.

From whom do you think Bill Gates takes his orders ? From his visions. There's nobody higher than him in his field. So his directions have to come from his visions and from his imagination. Constantly. Even with all the counselling staff that's working for him.

Remember that the computer you're typing on, the tv set you look at everyday, the car you would like to drive, and almost all what you can see in your home, were dreams at their beginning.

If you don't learn to live up to your dreams, you will still have to live up to the dreams of others like Thomas Edison, Henry Ford or others and you will be in competition with those trying to do the same.

If you use your own dreams, you have no competition.

mario

Absolutely excellent post.

If everyone in the world thought like this, imagine the benefits. Everyone would be getting rich from their dreams, loving their life, and at the same time creating incredible untold values for the rest of mankind (like cars and computers).

Absolutely excellent post.

If everyone in the world thought like this, imagine
the benefits. Everyone would be getting rich
from their dreams, loving their life, and at the same
time creating incredible untold values for the rest of
mankind (like cars and computers).

Not exactly only cars and computers but living by their
own values. Which is much more valuable than anything
material.

Of course it doesn't look for everybody, but do you
want to be everybody ? Not me ! I want to be myself.
And people are happy to see in me someone who can live
by his own beliefs. Many people would like to do the
same. But they don't know where to begin.

A little more original ideas wouldn't do any harm to
our civilization. If too many people look for security
first, there are chances something will be missing soon
in our future.

There's not any problems everybody looking to live by
personal accomplishments to me. The economy is changing
fast and pointing in this direction for the near
future. There is not enough sources of originality in
our economy as it is presently. Not enough place for
creativity.

More creativity = more security. This is security
without shortcuts. As security should be.

mario