Dont Worry I havn't killed anyone :biglaugh:
I was just watching a new story earlier about a Lady who was beaten near to death and in self defense took the guy from the criminal and killed him.
Now due to the great Australian Law she gets 20 years Prison.

Where is the justice in this?

So that makes me wonder, Let's say you were walking home one night, after work, It's 7 pm and out of a Dark Alley a Thug jumps out with a knife at your neck.. What exactly are you supposed to do?

This raises further questions for martial arts, At the moment in Karate we are learning a Knuckle punch that can make someone's heart stop, we are learning it so we quote ' will never have to use it ', but what if you do, what if it's the only option and I mean the ONLY option?

Dont Worry I havn't killed anyone :biglaugh:
I was just watching a new story earlier about a Lady who was beaten near to death and in self defense took the guy from the criminal and killed him.
Now due to the great Australian Law she gets 20 years Prison.

Where is the justice in this?

So that makes me wonder, Let's say you were walking home one night, after work, It's 7 pm and out of a Dark Alley a Thug jumps out with a knife at your neck.. What exactly are you supposed to do?

This raises further questions for martial arts, At the moment in Karate we are learning a Knuckle punch that can make someone's heart stop, we are learning it so we quote ' will never have to use it ', but what if you do, what if it's the only option and I mean the ONLY option?


The scenario with the lady in australia is not self-defense. There was intent and motive. It was planned and orchestrated. She was no longer in immediate danger. That is not the same as killing someone at the time they attacked you.

*edited. Looks like I mis-read what you wrote the first time. Did the lady kill her attacker at the time he beat her or was it after the fact. I'm a little confused about that.

Hmm, ill hold on my thoughts untill you can post a news link?!

Well, don't trust that knuckle punch too much would be MY advice............

But self defense is just that- if you're jumped with a deadly weapon, you respond with deadly force, if you can. Or die. Now, murdering someone because they've beaten you up- the "burning bed" syndrome- is a lot dicier proposition in Court. Better off leaving. Just my thoughts....

I'm looking for the news link now.

As far as I know..

The Criminal had just robbed a mall/store, she was on duty and went to stop him, He had beaten the hell out of her and ran, she was so heavily beaten she didn't claim to remember anything else, she just pulled the gun and shot.

So It might be this ' burning bed ' syndrome but I dont know..

I guess my question was more related to what if you WERE being killed, as in not beaten but the criminal had only one motive and that was to kill you, and was in the process and you killed him instead.

:hijack:

Such is the flaw in the law....I saw a 25 y/o guy get in the face of a 70+ y/o man at, of all places, a Christmas ice show.

Now, had I intervened and given this guy what he deserved, I would have been the one getting fingerprinted, and then probably sued civilly.

The law is a disincentive to people doing what they should do.

Not in the USOFA,

Here in the USOFA We let everyone go free if theres even a CHANCE they could be guilty,

COUGHOJSIMPSONCOUGH

I'm looking for the news link now.

As far as I know..

The Criminal had just robbed a mall/store, she was on duty and went to stop him, He had beaten the hell out of her and ran, she was so heavily beaten she didn't claim to remember anything else, she just pulled the gun and shot.

So It might be this ' burning bed ' syndrome but I dont know..

I guess my question was more related to what if you WERE being killed, as in not beaten but the criminal had only one motive and that was to kill you, and was in the process and you killed him instead.

There is a LOT MORE to this case than you are letting known......this was done last year, it has only just apeared in court now dure to the police believeing there was more to it..the female security guard in question has a very questionable back ground (Drugs and Syndicate) and the police said this right from the start the fact she did a runner for two days after she shot the guy had police on the back foot to start...
Then the fact she beat the guy had a break compossed herself and then pulled her gun and shot him while he was uncousious leaves alot of room for doubt as far as self defence...if some one is down and out...in a controled enviroment then it is no longer classed as self deffence that is murder...and the most cowardly form

Oh I had no idea there was a background to her AUS, Cheers for clearing that up.

points need clarity:

Zaul: You need to post the story, since Aus may be referring to a seperate incident, unless you can confirm that what he is talking about is the same story.

On Self Defense:

Killing someone who has threatened to kill you is not self defense. No matter how you look at it, the law often see's a level of equality - If I stb you, you can stab me. If I punch you, you can punch me, if I shot you, you can shoot me...if I have a gun, you can't kill me.

People often confuse defence with attack. If I went into any martial arts class, a police training unit, SWAT, the military....and asked them each "Show me your defensive postures." "Show me how you defend against an unarmed person", "Show me how to defend against a knife attack" etc I'd see 90% of the time that attacker would be still alive, mostly unharmed, and I would see minimal attacking done by the defender.

So, given that, when someone claims "self defense" the laws ask - Why then are they dead?

Mark

So that makes me wonder, Let's say you were walking home one night, after work, It's 7 pm and out of a Dark Alley a Thug jumps out with a knife at your neck.. What exactly are you supposed to do?

Assume that if you don't defend yourself you're going to be killed.

This raises further questions for martial arts, At the moment in Karate we are learning a Knuckle punch that can make someone's heart stop, we are learning it so we quote ' will never have to use it ', but what if you do, what if it's the only option and I mean the ONLY option?

I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six any time.

That being said, a knuckle punch that will stop someones heart is a questionable means of defending yourself since you have no way to test if it works up until the time you use it.

I did martial arts for a few years and there are a number of practitioners out there who try to teach these sorts of things (usually for a fee.) For the most part I was unimpressed by most of it and saw it as a way to make money, especially if you never heard of the person teaching it, or if they were out of shape. I met some guy a number of years back whose claim to fame was flicking his fingers and killing people with them. He weighed about 350lbs and couldn't do one chin up. Translation: The guy was full of you know what. Provided he could catch me (which he could not) I don't believe for a second in the magic finger flick of death. It's either some ancient myth he read about or something he made up on his own. There were no documented cases of him ever using his arsenal of fingers for anything but scratching his own ass.

If someone was alleging to teach me a punch that could stop someones heart, I wonder when they would consider me certified to deliver it. Given that we have no willing volunteers to be punched and drop over dead to prove it works and that I can do it. Training on dummies proves nothing.

Off topic perhaps but I am saying, exercise caution when you pull out the "fist of death" if your life depends on it. Better have a plan B.

...exercise caution when you pull out the "fist of death" if your life depends on it. Better have a plan B.

I promised myself I would not read this thread....I was just so curious as to what Mr. Power had to say on the subject. Max, you hit the nail on the head with both common sense AND your great sense of humor. :urock:

You could always use Polynium 210 like the Russians did. Only $69 online!

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003017.html

Upon reading the answers to this thread I think a light bulb has gone inside my head.

Your right when you say ' a Martial artist should know how to stop an enemy not kill him '.
I guess because I'm an Amatuer at the moment the most common way for me to defend myself would be a punch to the enemies neck, or a thump to the heart.

I really need to practice more and learn how to stop someone rather than kill em.

CP WHY WONT YOU FIGHT ME!!? :(

Keep training Zaul,

Hey Zaul,

Mate, this isn't the middle east. Like you, when I was a wipper snipper I went through a phase of trying to become a lethal weapon. Got pretty good, and actually was given the class to teach on several occasions. One day when "pretend sparring" with the owners 7 year old white belt nephew, he knocked me out with a wild haymaker. He was like a quarter my size. Lucky shot right on my nose.

It was about then I realised I was doing all this fighting, and getting hurt, to try and AVOID fighting and getting hurt.:cookoo:

I promptly took up surfing and never looked back. And, low and behold, have never been in a fight. Ever. I have been punched though, but nothing serious.

I guess you find what you focus on.:tiphat: