There has been some wonderful participation in this forum. Let's crank it up a notch. Share with us (if you dare) an incident - a particular occurrence - when "Stinkin' Thinkin'" on your part, a Limiting Belief or a bad money attitude, helped you miss a financial opportunity or otherwise 'kept you out of the money!' And then share the lesson you learned from it.

Well Spidey.

In 1998, I lived in a an unusual flat in part of East London that no one was buying in, and was offered it at £80,000.

We were paying £810 per month rent.

My friend said "Thats outrageous, he'll never get that for it".

I bumped into the girl who bought it, and she sold it for £350,000.

My flatmate and I still talk about it when we see each other.

You could say its left an imprint....

I get the story, Chuck, but I don't see where a poor money attitude or limiting belief contributed to it. What was the bad money belief involved here? And what did you learn from the lesson?

I get the story, Chuck, but I don't see where a poor money attitude or limiting belief contributed to it. What was the bad money belief involved here? And what did you learn from the lesson?

Sorry, I got interupted.

I already had a flat, and was worried about owning two properties - the crash of the early 90's was still in my mind - and I bottled it.

I guess that I let emotion - rather than the simple pragmatic facts - make my decision. We were paying more in rent than we would have paid in mortgage!

Now I have three properties, as we approach a "slow down".

*Bites nails*.

What I learned was - DO THE NUMBERS.

Sorry, I got interupted.
I already had a flat, and was worried about owning two properties - the crash of the early 90's was still in my mind - and I bottled it.
I guess that I let emotion - rather than the simple pragmatic facts - make my decision. We were paying more in rent than we would have paid in mortgage!
Now I have three properties, as we approach a "slow down". *Bites nails*.
What I learned was - DO THE NUMBERS.May I make a suggestion?

From the portion of your post that I emboldened, it seems to me that the "Stinkin' Thinkin'" still exists. Whatever the limiting belief was before, it has not been eliminated because you are playing the same ritual in your mind now.

I think your identification of the lesson as 'do the numbers' is great, and, if you have done the numbers this time you should not be 'biting your nails.' But you are, you say!

So, what was the limiting belief and why is it still in effect?

May I make a suggestion?

From the portion of your post that I emboldened, it seems to me that the "Stinkin' Thinkin'" still exists. Whatever the limiting belief was before, it has not been eliminated because you are playing the same ritual in your mind now.

I think your identification of the lesson as 'do the numbers' is great, and, if you have done the numbers this time you should not be 'biting your nails.' But you are, you say!

So, what was the limiting belief and why is it still in effect?

Spider

The reason that I am "biting my nails" is that a major financial institution - Northern Rock - with whom I held my mortgage on one of the properties fell apart last year.

That means that they wont be offering me a new mortgage, and they have thrown their standard variable rate up to above 8% to avoid people borrowing money from them.

I had - quite correctly - worked my numbers on the basis that I would always be able to pick up a remortgage at marginally more than the "going rate" from my lender without having to jump through to many hoops.

My numbers were correct, assuming NR didnt go to the wall, which they did.

If I could have seen that coming, Warren Buffett would be calling me for tips...

Spider
The reason that I am "biting my nails" is that a major financial institution - Northern Rock - with whom I held my mortgage on one of the properties fell apart last year.
That means that they wont be offering me a new mortgage, and they have thrown their standard variable rate up to above 8% to avoid people borrowing money from them.
I had - quite correctly - worked my numbers on the basis that I would always be able to pick up a remortgage at marginally more than the "going rate" from my lender without having to jump through to many hoops.
My numbers were correct, assuming NR didnt go to the wall, which they did.
If I could have seen that coming, Warren Buffett would be calling me for tips...
Chuck,

What I'm talking about is, supoose your stinkin' thinkin' was a limiting belief that real estate property values cannot go up forever. That would translate into the £80,000 property was not going to increase to any great extent, but it did and you missed a perfect opportunity. And, now, that same limiting belief is having you doubt your ability to remortgage your existing property.

Whereas, dispensing with that belief would allow you to believe that your property will increase in value, giving you a greater value to loan ratio and make it *easier* to remortgage.

Then, the Northern Rock incident becomes a mere blip on the higway and of no great significance.

So - what is the limiting belief (or whatever it is) that is making the Northern Rock collapse so troublesome for you? Or, to put it the other way round - what would you have to believe so that the Northern Rock collapse is to your advantage?


If I'm challenging you too much in public, please say so and I'll stop.

Chuck,

What I'm talking about is, supoose your stinkin' thinkin' was a limiting belief that real estate property values cannot go up forever. That would translate into the £80,000 property was not going to increase to any great extent, but it did and you missed a perfect opportunity. And, now, that same limiting belief is having you doubt your ability to remortgage your existing property.

Whereas, dispensing with that belief would allow you to believe that your property will increase in value, giving you a greater value to loan ratio and make it *easier* to remortgage.

Then, the Northern Rock incident becomes a mere blip on the higway and of no great significance.

So - what is the limiting belief (or whatever it is) that is making the Northern Rock collapse so troublesome for you? Or, to put it the other way round - what would you have to believe so that the Northern Rock collapse is to your advantage?


If I'm challenging you too much in public, please say so and I'll stop.

No Spider its ok.

My belief is that long term, the value will go up.

The question is Spider, do I want to pay a premium for the property in the meantime?

I have done the sums, and I would need to fund the property to the tune of approx £250 per month while the value, and the rental markets are where they sit today.

Now, that will go down if interest rates fall - unlikely - or go up if they rise - more likely.

Likewise I expect property prices to fall in the short term - next 2/3 years - and so why leave my equity in a falling asset?

Why would I want to pay £9000 to keep something for three years that is only going to worth then what its worth today?

Limiting belief? Or pragmatism?

...Limiting belief? Or pragmatism?That's for you to say. My purpose is only to get you thinking 'outside the box' - to get you to think differently to your usual thoughts. If you think the same way you've always thought, you are likely to get the same results you always got.

You cannot outperform your self-image!

Up until the age of 27, I had the limiting belief that in order to open a business or take advantage of a business opportunity a person needed to have a lot of money.

During a conversation with my boss one day, the subject of apartment complexes as investments came up to which I made a comment to the effect that if I had a lot of money I could take advantage of such opportunities.

My boss then proceeded to rip into me about how all a person needs is an idea and the courage to sell it and how the only difference between me and the real estate investor was that he had guts and I didn't, AND he threw in for good measure that I was the sort who could never run a business - that I would work for someone for the rest of my life, because I was gutless.

Yes, he was a jackass, but his hard-hitting comments changed my view, as well as created a lifelong desire to prove him wrong.

So, when I looked into the possibility of opening my first Subway, I didn't let the fact that I had no job, no money and no collateral for a traditional loan stop me from finding a way to get my business open. I ended up using a creative combination of private loans, credit cards and equipment leasing and opened my store 100% financed.

It's not quite a missed opportunity story, but it has a happier ending! :D

That's for you to say. My purpose is only to get you thinking 'outside the box' - to get you to think differently to your usual thoughts. If you think the same way you've always thought, you are likely to get the same results you always got.

You cannot outperform your self-image!

Agreed, you cant. Same as, no matter how much you want an asset to rise in value, you cant "make it".

I have been through the angles, and the "pragmatist" in me says that forking out £250 per month to keep an asset that is falling in value makes no sense.

I'll take the equity out of that property, wait for the FTSE 100 to hit 4000 points, and "buy frozen OJ"......

Agreed, you cant. Same as, no matter how much you want an asset to rise in value, you cant "make it".
I have been through the angles, and the "pragmatist" in me says that forking out £250 per month to keep an asset that is falling in value makes no sense.
I'll take the equity out of that property, wait for the FTSE 100 to hit 4000 points, and "buy frozen OJ"......I'm not going to suggest that you are arriving at the wrong conclusion, Chuck, because I don't know the numbers. But it does sound to me as if you are using your same old thinking.

For example, it could be a limiting belief to believe that forking out £250 per month to keep an asset that is falling in value makes no sense. Now, I'm not saying that it makes sense, but it could. It looks obvious on the surface, but is it really?

1. You never know when the market is going to turn and there is a great probability that you will miss the turn when it comes.

2. Markets don't go up or down in a straight line, so it's impossible to know whether a market has turned until it is way past the turning point.

3. Both the above means it is more than likely you will buy later at a higher price than you can sell for now, not the reverse. Unless the decline is going to be very long and deep.

4. Suppose out of your £250/month payment, £100 is paying interest and £150 is going to principal, then, as long as the property value is not falling faster than £150/month, you are still adding to equity, even though the property value is falling. And adding to equity may be your main objective.

So, you see, it could make sense to pay £250/month to keep an asset that is falling in value.

Agreed, you cant. Same as, no matter how much you want an asset to rise in value, you cant "make it".

I have been through the angles, and the "pragmatist" in me says that forking out £250 per month to keep an asset that is falling in value makes no sense.

I'll take the equity out of that property, wait for the FTSE 100 to hit 4000 points, and "buy frozen OJ"......

Chuck

The stars might lie but the numbers never do... and its been my experience that those that create wealth spend more time understanding and using the "numbers" to their long term advantage and not so much exploring their "feelings"

Spider: In the interest of fairness, do you know any captains of industry that have spent a lot of time reconciling their childhood feelings toward money as a key factor for creating wealth?

...So, when I looked into the possibility of opening my first Subway, I didn't let the fact that I had no job, no money and no collateral for a traditional loan stop me from finding a way to get my business open. I ended up using a creative combination of private loans, credit cards and equipment leasing and opened my store 100% financed...Good story, George. The lesson being, of course, that a person doesn't need to have a lot of money to start a business or take advantage of a business opportunity.

Now, your Subway shop was some years ago, I think. Have you more recently - and especially - are you now not taking advantage of a business opportunity because you feel you don't have enough money to do it?

Now, your Subway shop was some years ago, I think. Have you more recently - and especially - are you now not taking advantage of a business opportunity because you feel you don't have enough money to do it?

No.

What's your story Frederick?

...

So, when I looked into the possibility of opening my first Subway, I didn't let the fact that I had no job, no money and no collateral for a traditional loan stop me from finding a way to get my business open. I ended up using a creative combination of private loans, credit cards and equipment leasing and opened my store 100% financed.

It's not quite a missed opportunity story, but it has a happier ending! :D

Wait, I don't remember the subway franchise. Have you ever written that out on one of the boards, because I'd like to read about franchise financing.

I have a very concise restaurant idea but the restaurateurs I know are idiots living on a 10% margin and I don't trust their advice so much. the main guy I know is full of reasons why his restaurant which he's selling is better than my idea. I'm talking about a strict lunch place.

If I never told this story, when I was in my 20s I talked to a secretary who owned two turnkey "Coffee carts" in suburban office buildings and made something like $100 profit per day per cart with her nieces running the carts or something like an extra $20k per year. and in those years before starbucks went everywhere she had a good niche market. but I forget if she said the carts cost her $8000 or $16000 each... Either way the spark of low-overhead franchise ownership was lit there...

Wait, I don't remember the subway franchise. Have you ever written that out on one of the boards, because I'd like to read about franchise financing.

I have a very concise restaurant idea but the restaurateurs I know are idiots living on a 10% margin and I don't trust their advice so much. the main guy I know is full of reasons why his restaurant which he's selling is better than my idea. I'm talking about a strict lunch place.

If I never told this story, when I was in my 20s I talked to a secretary who owned two turnkey "Coffee carts" in suburban office buildings and made something like $100 profit per day per cart with her nieces running the carts or something like an extra $20k per year. and in those years before starbucks went everywhere she had a good niche market. but I forget if she said the carts cost her $8000 or $16000 each... Either way the spark of low-overhead franchise ownership was lit there...

I think the subject has come up a few times but not often.

10% is great if gross receipts are more than $3m per year, but even then 30% or better, for any ventture, should be the goal, IMO.

Franchise-chat (http://www.franchise-chat.com/forum/index.php?) is a good forum for information and opinions, as well as Small Business Forums (http://www.small-business-forum.com/index.php)

The restaurant business is risky with 50% failing in the first year and 50% of the survivors failing in the second year.

If you want to knock your idea around a bit, let me know.
:tiphat:

Chuck

The stars might lie but the numbers never do... and its been my experience that those that create wealth spend more time understanding and using the "numbers" to their long term advantage and not so much exploring their "feelings"

Spider: In the interest of fairness, do you know any captains of industry that have spent a lot of time reconciling their childhood feelings toward money as a key factor for creating wealth?

Agreed Batty.

Which is why the house is getting the Spanish Archer (El Bow).......

While I take Spiders point about property markets not moving in a straight line, I bet he - in the same position - would do the same as me.

...Spider: In the interest of fairness, do you know any captains of industry that have spent a lot of time reconciling their childhood feelings toward money as a key factor for creating wealth?The first that springs to mind is Richard Branson, CEO of Virgin Airways and a bunch of other things. In his auto-biography - Screw It, Let's Do It - he alludes to childhood feelings about business, although not necessarily to brooding over them. Mum was a 'let's do it' sort of gal and Richard followed in her footsteps. For all the world to see! He used the phrase, "Money doesn't grow on trees," when he speaks of his first business venture at nine years old. Now, that's not a phrase that a nine-year-old is likely to invent himself, so I must presume he heard it from his mother. He and a friend were going to grow Christmas trees from seed - 400 of them - but rabbits ate all the seedlings! Money doesn't grow on trees - you have to work for it.

I don't know of anything specific about money regarding Jack Welch (GE) but he is reported as saying, "My mother taught me how to win and lose. That you could do both and do them right. She told me every day, That's the way it is, that's the way it is. You better recognize it, see it that way, and deal with it. And she constantly knew how to hug, and she knew how to kick. And the combination of hugging and kicking is an important part of managing. It's an important part of leadership." And Jack Welch was very successful at leadership, I think, and made whole bunch of money doing it.

In an interview, Bill Gates said: When I was growing up, my parents were almost [constantly] involved in various volunteer things. My dad was head of Planned Parenthood. And it was very controversial to be involved with that. And so it's fascinating. At the dinner table my parents [were] very good at sharing the things that they were doing. And almost treating us like adults, talking about that.
.. My mom was on the United Way group that decides how to allocate the money and looks at all the different charities and makes the very hard decisions about where that pool of funds is going to go. So I always knew there was something about really educating people and giving them choices in terms of family size.
.. I have to say I got off the track when I started Microsoft, I thought okay now I have my, you know, my passion. At least for the next 40 years or so. And when my mom said to me, "oh you have to do a United Way campaign," I said to my mom, "mom this is serious stuff now. That was all nice to talk about but you know I've got to pay these people and if we don't get enough contracts. And this is a very competitive environment. And so this whole notion that we're gonna sit around and drink tea and do United Way campaigns, I don't think we have time for that."
.. But she kept working on me and saying, "no, this is a good thing." And had me meet with other people.
.. So finally I thought, "okay I'll fit it into my framework" which is getting the employees to kind of feel more bonded, more of a team. You know, and appreciate the unique position they're in. And so we made a United Way Fund. We had contests around it. We had the agencies come in.


Perhaps not exactly the answers you were looking for, Tim, but I think it indicates the influence childhood financial memories have on one's financial life as an adult. And if one's own memories are not conducive to an improved financial life, one if forced to spend a lot of time reconciling their childhood feelings toward money in order to be financially successful. Or not succeed financially.

Great quotes Spidey but they seem to me to be focused on risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition, not lack or other conventional financial experiences/beliefs.

I tried to give Bat-Tim some rep for the question because I thought it was a good one - but I need to spread it around, so sayeth the vibe rep police.

Spidey

You gonna share your limiting beliefs? Or are we to assume that you were born as perfect as you are now?

Great quotes Spidey but they seem to me to be focused on risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition, not lack or other conventional financial experiences/beliefs... You saw a focus on risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition, where I saw a focus on good financial lessons being taught. Which is why I said I think they indicate the influence childhood financial memories have on one's financial life as an adult. None of this stuff acts in isolation, KG. In these examples where you see risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition, there is also childhood financial learning going on. I imagine lots of children learn risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition from their parents without a beneficial financial positoning being part of the lesson - and they are not the Jack Welches, Richard Bransons and Bill Gates' of the world.

These people seem to have had a beneficial financial grounding to their childhood. If one's own childhood was not conducive to an improved financial life later in life, one is forced to reconcile their childhood feelings toward money in order to be financially successful. Or not succeed financially.

One might ask, where am I now at this time of my life, and where was Jack Welch (insert your own financial hero) at the same point in his life. And if I am way behind my hero, why? For someone who feels circumstances and luck play no part in one's progress and it is all of one's own making, the answer should be quite revelaing, if one is prepared to be brutally honest with oneself.

I have particularly been looking for industrialists to example, because that was Tim's question. More specific answers might be offered if I was to look at people like Brian Tracy and Og Mandino who have been more forthcoming in their personal hsitory, but thay are not industrial icons.

You saw a focus on risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition, where I saw a focus on good financial lessons being taught.



That sounds like LOA to me my friend.

I tried to give Bat-Tim some rep for the question because I thought it was a good one - but I need to spread it around, so sayeth the vibe rep police.

:tiphat:

I have particularly been looking for industrialists to example, because that was Tim's question. More specific answers might be offered if I was to look at people like Brian Tracy and Og Mandino who have been more forthcoming in their personal hsitory, but thay are not industrial icons.

Yes you could but wouldn't that be the same as people who are engaged in the promotion of the notion like oprah is to LOA?

Originally Posted by Spider
You saw a focus on risk tolerance, giving/serving and competition, where I saw a focus on good financial lessons being taught.

That sounds like LOA to me my friend.Huh? What on earth could that have to do with the so-called law of attraction? Where there are apples and oranges in a basket and one person focusses on the oranges and another person focusses on the apples, has nothing whatsoever to do with anything beyond observation!

Yes you could but wouldn't that be the same as people who are engaged in the promotion of the notion like oprah is to LOA?Exactly - yes. That is why I used industrialists only, even though they seem to be less forthcoming on their personal histories.

...While I take Spiders point about property markets not moving in a straight line, I bet he - in the same position - would do the same as me.I couldn't say one way or the other because I don't know your numbers, but whether I would do this or that is not the point. This isn't about me, it's about you. The more you say on the matter, Chuck, the more it seems to me you are being somewhat less pragmatic than you state, and more following your emotions than you like to admit.

Perhaps I am mistaken but that is just the impression I am getting.

The point I am trying to draw to everyone's attention is that there is always more than one way to look at anything and if you don't look at everything in lots of different ways, you will be blindsided on occasion. Look at that discussion we had some months ago about paying down credit cards, and my statement that one should pay off the smallest balance first not the card with the highest interest rate. I'll bet there are people today who were part of that discussion who still believe that one should pay off the card with the highest interest rate first. Even though I proved conclusively that that was not the best way.

Beliefs are buggers to eliminate. You can prove them wrong, think you have a new belief installed and years later find yourself playing along to your old belief without realising it.

The stars might lie but the numbers never do...I've heard many, many times that numbers don't lie. It always jumps out at me - probably because numbers have been my life. I was halfway through my career spending my entire workdays measuring and calculating and doing numerical analysis without the benefit of a calculator. While it is true that numbers don't lie, it is also very true that people can - and do - lie with numbers. Usually out of misunderstanding than any intent to defraud. So, one cannot believe what numbers tell you simply because they are numbers.

... and its been my experience that those that create wealth spend more time understanding and using the "numbers" to their long term advantage and not so much exploring their "feelings" ...I think that is true, because the people who come to our attention as wealthy start out with financial feelings that are conducive to wealth creation. But that is not most people. The three industry titans I mentioned earlier appear to have been given a good sound financial set of feelings by their parents. Most people start out in life learning that money is scarce, that money is troublesome, that money causes mommy and daddy to fight, and so on, and that produces a whole set of negative feelings about money with which they enter adult life. Most people do have to spend more time on exploring their feelings than understanding and using numbers, because until they have their feelings conducive to wealth creation, their understanding and use of numbers will be flawed.

What's your story Frederick?
Spidey
You gonna share your limiting beliefs? Or are we to assume that you were born as perfect as you are now?Why do I have the feeling that attempts are being made to trip me up? Or, perhaps that is a limiting belief!!

But I'll play the game. I'll tell of an incident the moment I arrived in America and a series of incidents that followed. It amounts to the creation of a limiting belief and my success in overcoming it.

I had been particularly successful in my construction business in the Caribbean and arrived in America with money. I had intended to use what I had learned and what I had earned to become even more successful. In my first deal, I was thoroughly ripped off, with the other person actually leaving town in the middle of the night. I had been too trusting, but that's how I had learned to do business. Surely, Texas was the land of the handshake deal, wasn't it? A series of similar incidents followed after each of which I became less and less trusting and less and less inclined to work with people. By the time the last such incident occurred, I had a good tight contract, with an exit clause. This was a real eye-opener for me.

I had invested money in an existing business and was to work with the company as a consultant. But I didn't want to be wedded forever. An exit clause allowed either of us to call a halt upon certain payment to the other. Very quickly, one part of the business reached a point where considerable gain was about to be made. I was to share in that gain. My partner chose to focus on how much he would have to pay me rather than how much he would be earning. He invoked the exit clause. I got a considerable payout, but nothing like what I would have earned when the gain materialized. So, effectively, he screwed me, but quite legitiately within the terms of our contract. However, partnerships are funny things - take one leg away and it is likely to fall over. Without me to see it through, he messed up the process and failed to pull it off. So, in the end, he screwed himself.

It was at this point that I felt the need in the small business community for a business coach. While there are some brilliant business people around, they tend to work for or own large businesses. The run-of-the-mill small business is run by a run-of-the-mill poorly educated non-business person, who nonetheless is often in the process of learning better financial ways. I felt the knowledge I now had, and was still gaining, could be put to good effect by helping these people to get rid of their "Stinkin' Thinkin'" and poor money attitude.

In effect, I turned a limiting belief of reducing trust into an expanding and empowering belief that I had the knowledge to help small businesses and add to my wealth in the process.

Lesson? Every cloud has a silver lining.

Huh? What on earth could that have to do with the so-called law of attraction? Where there are apples and oranges in a basket and one person focusses on the oranges and another person focusses on the apples, has nothing whatsoever to do with anything beyond observation!

Because Spider, you get out of something what you focus on.

You want to see a certain thing, so you see it.

Why do I have the feeling that attempts are being made to trip me up?

Not from me, I actually thought the questions you asked on that LOA thread were good and wanted to see how they fit in this area of discussion

Why do I have the feeling that attempts are being made to trip me up? Or, perhaps that is a limiting belief!!



Must be!

There has been some wonderful participation in this forum. Let's crank it up a notch. Share with us (if you dare) an incident - a particular occurrence - when "Stinkin' Thinkin'" on your part, a Limiting Belief or a bad money attitude, helped you miss a financial opportunity or otherwise 'kept you out of the money!' And then share the lesson you learned from it.

Not sure why you would perceive my asking what your story is as an attempt to trip you up. You started this thread. You talk about sharing the lessons learned. Don't you think it's only logical that you share as well, for the benefit of the group? Is it really that hard to believe that I might be genuinely curious about your experiences?

I've noticed you frequently ask thought provoking questions of others, then discuss their answers yet rarely do you share your response to such questions. I wonder if your past experiences of being screwed over haven't caused you to be a little too suspicious.

You really have some terrific ideas and interesting thread topics. I think they would be received better if you shared more of your personal story up front.

I'm not trying to trip you up, or offend, or provoke you. My comments come from the FWIWD and will, hopefully, contribute to the overall quality of the discussion.

:tiphat:

Because Spider, you get out of something what you focus on.
You want to see a certain thing, so you see it.Is that the law of attraction for you? I see no "attraction" there. I see "getting" and "taking" and "creating" but not "attracting."

But if getting and taking and creating is LOA for you, then I guess you're right - for you.

Re: the "trip-up" comment - and to all those who commented on it -- 'twas but a lighthearted retort, bearing in mind Chuck's "..are we to assume that you were born as perfect as you are now? .." which I took to be equally lighthearted, somewhat! (Maybe it's a British thing, Chuck!)

Actually, George, I'm a little less outgoing in person than might seem from this forum. Nevertheless, I think I have been quite forthcoming in my story during the course of any discussion. But in bits - I don't generally spill my guts in a long drawn out self-devotional post about myself, unless asked or challenged.

You see, I really am quite a private person. And if you are correct that my early years in America have made me somewhat suspicious, that only goes to prove that learned habits and beliefs can be quite difficult to eliminate entirely. And as I believe trust is one of the basic principles of successful business, perhaps it is something I need to look into further.

Actually, George, I'm a little less outgoing in person than might seem from this forum. Nevertheless, I think I have been quite forthcoming in my story during the course of any discussion. But in bits - I don't generally spill my guts in a long drawn out self-devotional post about myself, unless asked or challenged.

You see, I really am quite a private person. And if you are correct that my early years in America have made me somewhat suspicious, that only goes to prove that learned habits and beliefs can be quite difficult to eliminate entirely. And as I believe trust is one of the basic principles of successful business, perhaps it is something I need to look into further.

That helps me understand you better - thanks!
:thumb:

My story like john chow.