Why does money elude you?

Reason #2: Believing there is a secret to becoming successful. Believing there has been a conspiracy to keep the “Secrets of Success” hidden from you. The fact is — there are no secrets! You know exactly what to do to become a millionaire. You know how to be successful.

Comments?

Is money managing skill consider as a 'secret'?
Like how to save, how to invest, how to value, how to compound the money?

I agree with you spider that everyone knows what needs to be done to reach success, but that usually entails taking the most difficult route, making diffucult decisions and having to face all deamonds. That's why most people look for a secret or an easy way (including me) :)

Only two comments? Can I assume, then, that everyone here does not believe there is a conspiracy to keep the “Secrets of Success” hidden from you?

If that is the case, why aren't you rich?

Suggestion: Explore your own inner thoughts and beliefs to see if there is a lingering belief in a conspiracy to keep you poor. Especially in the current economic climate - phrases I have recently heard include "Wall Street fatcats" - are they the conspiracy? What about "Bail out for the wealthy"? - are they a conspiracy? Who are these "irresponsihle financiers"? - ar they a conmspiracy bent on keeping you poor?

Have you been using these and other 'conspiracy-type' phrases when discussing the economy?

Only two comments? Can I assume, then, that everyone here does not believe there is a conspiracy to keep the “Secrets of Success” hidden from you?

If that is the case, why aren't you rich?

Suggestion: Explore your own inner thoughts and beliefs to see if there is a lingering belief in a conspiracy to keep you poor. Especially in the current economic climate - phrases I have recently heard include "Wall Street fatcats" - are they the conspiracy? What about "Bail out for the wealthy"? - are they a conspiracy? Who are these "irresponsihle financiers"? - ar they a conmspiracy bent on keeping you poor?

Have you been using these and other 'conspiracy-type' phrases when discussing the economy?

Wealth for me was always the final part of the jigsaw and I never especially focused on it until I was around 30. Prior to that I was happy with what I was earning and that allowed me to do the things that I considered more important. Nowadays wealth acquisition is one of the most important parts of my life because it will allow me to take my life to the next level that I want to go in (which means being able to travel around the world with my family and giving my kids the opportunity to study abroad when they attend uni). I don't believe there is a conspiracy but I do think Bernanke hasn't ever really shone in his position and that has indirectly affected me in Japan (among other things, including the lack of foresight from high ranked Japanese officials). Even now I strongly believe there is a lot of money to be made and I am taking the steps to get hold of it in a manner that will allow me to earn from anywhere in the world, which means internet businesses. I just think patience is needed right now to build up links and bookmarks to my sites and then things will take off. I'm planning other sites now and doing the necessary research and preparation so I'm quite happy about that.

Cheers,

Eisho

Why does money elude you?

Reason #2: Believing there is a secret to becoming successful. Believing there has been a conspiracy to keep the “Secrets of Success” hidden from you. The fact is — there are no secrets! You know exactly what to do to become a millionaire. You know how to be successful.

Comments?
I don't share that belief, so really don't have anything to contribute to that discussion. Sounds like really paranoid thinking to me.

Only two comments? Can I assume, then, that everyone here does not believe there is a conspiracy to keep the “Secrets of Success” hidden from you?

If that is the case, why aren't you rich?


How can you even tie these two together :hmm:
You assume I/we are not and you missed that assumption in your statement.

I don't share that belief, so really don't have anything to contribute to that discussion. Sounds like really paranoid thinking to me.Yes, it is very paranoid thinking, AAL. It's also very common thinking. The whole of 'The Secret' movie, book, and other products, was based on that very thought - that there is a conspiracy keeping the secrets of success secret. Many people fell for it, and still perpetuate the concept. The trouble is, as long as one holds on to the belief that there is a conspiracy of people preventing you from knowing the "secrets of success" then money will remain elusive.

How can you even tie these two together :hmm:
You assume I/we are not and you missed that assumption in your statement.You're focussing on the less important part of my post, Scooter. How about a response to the more important part---...Suggestion: Explore your own inner thoughts and beliefs to see if there is a lingering belief in a conspiracy to keep you poor. Especially in the current economic climate - phrases I have recently heard include "Wall Street fatcats" - are they the conspiracy? What about "Bail out for the wealthy"? - are they a conspiracy? Who are these "irresponsible financiers"? - ar they a conspiracy bent on keeping you poor?
Have you been using these and other 'conspiracy-type' phrases when discussing the economy?

You're focussing on the less important part of my post, Scooter. How about a response to the more important part---
:biglaugh: and you didn't answer my question :cool:

:biglaugh: and you didn't answer my question :cool:That's right, because the answer is immaterial.

Now, your response to my suggestion?

That's right, because the answer is immaterial.

Now, your response to my suggestion?

There is no lingering belief in a conspiracy to keep me poor. I get that you are targeting this towards the general populace. Soooo. First off, I am not poor and second there is only one thing standing in my way to greater wealth and as I stated in WMEY #1, It is me. I am my own conspirator. The Evil scooter :lildevil:

Good, so far, but have you - anyone - been using 'conspiracy-type' phrases when discussing the economy recently?

Phrases I have heard include "Wall Street fatcats" - "Bail out for the wealthy"? - "irresponsihle financiers"? - "the Thieves of Wall Street" - "unethical bankers."

What have you been using?

In the Political Forum, Scooter, you posted....knowing that Capital Hill is full of old turds and a massive good old Boy network that is in bed with wall street and hell bent of personal wallet padding and sewing up future elections without regard for the countries best interests....

Yet, here, you said...There is [as in "I have'] no lingering belief in a conspiracy to keep me poor. I get that you are targeting this towards the general populace. Soooo. First off, I am not poor and second there is only one thing standing in my way to greater wealth and as I stated in WMEY #1, It is me. I am my own conspirator. The Evil scooter :lildevil:"...old turds and a massive good old Boy network that is in bed with wall street and hell bent of personal wallet padding and sewing up future elections without regard for the countries best interests..." sounds very conspiracy-like to me?

That, in fact, is what I was talking about. These old beliefs are so very insidious and undermine our progress without us even realizing it. You say you are not poor, and I'm glad to hear that. However, I also recall you saying that you don't feel particularly wealthy even though your 'paper' worth is high due to stock ownership in your company.

Perhaps this old belief in a conspiracy in Washington and on Wall Street that you now express is not helping you feel as wealthy as you are, and may be preventing you from maximizing the prosperity you have.

Just a thought.

Has anyone else found themselves thinking or talking of conspiracies or using conspiracy-like terminology while discussing this economic turmoil?

I guess by definition I cannot see the Conspiracy in what I said above.
Definitions:

a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)
a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

Having worked in large and small business's from several employees to 10's of thousands and operating at all different levels and in many cases Executive or Elite positions I can attest that these so called conspiracies are often real and although sinister in nature not necessarily illegal.

Large companies do indeed try to gobble up the little guy, people do think of themselves first and the very wealthy do prey on the the less fortunate. I have sat in many boardrooms trying to figure out ways to take out the competition. Business is a war and battles are fought every day. Go ask Trump. He is in it for the game, the challenge, not necessarily the money. Taking out his competition isn't a conspiracy, it is a way of life for him and many people.

Do you disagree with this statement?
Capital Hill is full of old turds and a massive good old Boy network that is in bed with wall street and hell bent of personal wallet padding and sewing up future elections without regard for the countries best interests

I guess by definition I cannot see the Conspiracy in what I said above.
Definitions:

a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot)
a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose
But you only picked out the negative definitions. A conspiracy also includes any agreement to act in harmony and any group of people who so act. (Try, "After the argument, and knowing he would not openly accept their help, his friends conspired to bring the lovers together that evening.")


Having worked in large and small business's from several employees to 10's of thousands and operating at all different levels and in many cases Executive or Elite positions I can attest that these so called conspiracies are often real and although sinister in nature not necessarily illegal.
Large companies do indeed try to gobble up the little guy, people do think of themselves first and the very wealthy do prey on the the less fortunate. I have sat in many boardrooms trying to figure out ways to take out the competition. Business is a war and battles are fought every day. Go ask Trump. He is in it for the game, the challenge, not necessarily the money. Taking out his competition isn't a conspiracy, it is a way of life for him and many people... So you DO believe in conspiracies!

Good! Now that you have established that, is it possible that this belief is holding you back in any way? Especially as you seem only to recognize the negative aspects of conspiacy and ignore the positive aspects?


And I challenge anyone else reading along to look at their own beliefs in this regard and try to identify beliefs in conspiracies that might be holding them back.

Ok. I will tell you what happened with me, and you can tell me if this is just a false belief that people are conspiring against me.

I live in Libya, which is a very primitive country. Libya has just been welcomed back to the interational community. Lots and lots of foriegn oil companies have moved to Libya to set up business, which has made hundreds of thousands of jobs available. The national Oil company in libya has made it compulsory for all foriegn companies to employ a certain percentage of locals (10% i think), and another condition is that the human resource department is run by libyans too. Libya is a primitive country that still goes by a tribal system. In Libya if you have the power then you are right. So if the people in the human resource department are from a certain tribe in libya, all the employees in the company are from the same tribe. These companies advertise their jobs in newspapers, websites, you name it, but when you look at the origin of the people from the resource department and the origin of the other employees in the company, you will find that they are the same. The qualities they are supposedly looking for are good communication in English and computer skills, which i have both. I have applied to over 40 companies multiple times with no reply. In Libya the spoken language is Arabic, so not many people are proficient enough to qualify for these type of positions, but always the same type of people get the well paid jobs, relatives.

I don't think this is relative to the conspiracy theories that you are talking about, because in primitive socioties where power is right, this is common and a fact of life. Maybe that's where this type of thinking originated from. Because i think the less developed a country is, the more corruption, nepotism, and embezzlement you will find, and the more you will find this belief widespread amongst people :)

Do you think that it is impossicle for people to work together in a way that isn't in your benefit? I don't think so. I think when i person has solid proof that this is happening, the most important thing is that they don't take the role of a victim and give up.

Saf, I understand your situation. My view is that people do not normally conspire together to put another down - they work together to improve their own position. In fact, unless there is a particular family or tribal feud (where one group consciously works against another group) the dominant group doesn't even care if the other people exist. Put simply, a manager doesn't keep his workers down, he is only interested in lifting himself up. The trick for a good manager is to do both at the same time.

In your case, I would call what you describe as a cultural standard. I think a conspiracy is more a conscious and intentional exercise of power. In societies where this exists, family ties are probably stronger than in other, cosmoplitan societies. The difference between attitudes and beliefs of the two groups is probably greater, and understanding between members of the two groups rather weak. Therefore, it is generally easier and more productive all round, if companies draw their workers from a more homogeneous (ie. family) group rather than from a less homogeneous (non-family) group. It seems to me a matter of expediency rather than conspiracy.

I think you are taking a positive attitude to it. That's good. Playing the victim is never productive and always worth avoiding. Perhaps if your family/tribal group has dominance in a company, that would be where you should apply. or try to think of, or even arrange, cross-tribal or cross-family understanding. Are there any such groups that are not quite "your family" but related in some more distant fashion? How about establishing a goal to break family ties and bring your countrymen together in diverse commercial relationships. In other words, become a politician!

(By the way, I'm using long words in the belief that your English is very good. If I need to speak in easier terms, please say so.)

Hi Spider. Thanks for the reply to my post. When i reread my post i felt that i over exaggerrated the situation in Libya a little, but in comparison to well advanced countries libya is still very primative and nepotism is very common.

I've been keeping an eye on your threads and i am really interested in where you are going with them. I understand that it's not healthy for a person to believe that there is a conspiracy against them, or somebody is trying to keep them down, but at the same time, I feel that this belief needs to be very clearly defined, as it has caused a lot of misunderstandings within this forum. Now what i am going to do is write down my definition of the conspiracy belief and if i am wrong you can correct me.

Conspiracy belief: People are intentionally conspiring to keep them down.

I have a problem with accepting this belief because on occasions i have clashed with people at work and they have done their best to discredit me. So i think this definition should be adjusted like this

Conspiracy belief: People are intentionally conspiring to keep them down without any solid evidence to prove anything.

I think that it is naive to think that people never get jealous or hold hatred towards a person and would like to see that person humiliated. For example racism. A lot of people have faced difficulties getting good jobs etc because of racism. I look at jelousy, hatred, racism as a desease, but we can't be oblivious to the facts of life. People are people, the things i mentioned like jealousy and hatred are known facts that are part of the human psychology, whether they are good or bad. I added ' without any solid evidence to prove anything' because if a person doesn't have any solid proof that they have been wronged then they shouldn't accept whatever happened to them as a conspiracy, as doing so would just be pure parania. I think that it's not about negative thinking or positive thinking, I think it is about knowing the truth. I believe in the law of cause and effect. If you don't get the result that you want, then you should look at the cause, and to be oblivious to that is insanity to me.

I put the word intentionally in bold text because i think there is confusion between when the people are conspiring to harm others or just that there conspiracy harmed others as a side effect.

I would like to speak on scooters behalf. I don't think that scooter meant that people are conspiring to keep him down intentionally . I think he was just mentioning the facts of corporal business and monopoly. I don't think in any way he feels that there is a conspiricy to keep him from moving up in the world. I have a lot of respect for you spider but i have a feeling that you misunderstood scooters intentions.

I think that this false belief should be clarified and discussed in further detail so that anyone that has a belief that is holding them back can get rid of it, and at the same time not be naive and have their head in the clouds while others pull the carpet from under their feet. I tried to define this false belief, i would love it if other vibers would get involved and give their definition so we can come to the best one and be 100% clear if any thought or belief is keeping us back.

Spider don't worry about my English. I have lived most of my life in the UK, and my mother is English. To add to that i have plenty of electronic dictionaries installed on my PC :)

Vibers, please keep this thread alive :thumb:

We have expanded this conversation to include all conspiracies, or perhaps it is to define conspiracy, but I would like to see this eventually come back to "a conspiracy to keep the “Secrets of Success” hidden from you" as something that keeps money from you - as mentioned in the original post.

The problem with recognizing and defining conpsiracy is that it is obviously something undercover and secret. Therefore, its existence will always be more imagination than fact. Therefore, we are discussing feelings rather than actual observation. In consequence, I am less inclined to get as specific as you were, Saf.

For me, a Conspiracy is a group of people (or force - as in the weather conspired to screw up their vacation) who make some plans that are not intended to be public. Things that are not intended to be public are usually, but not always, illegal, immoral, unethical or shady - and this is how the word is commonly used. We tend not to think of people organizing a surprise birthday party as a conspiracy, but a price-fixing cartel is often called a conspiracy.

I, too, think "intentional" is a necessary factor. Even when used in a benign fashion - the weather conspired to screw up their vacation - it is still written to suppose that the weather "intended" to screw up the vacation. But I don't go with the "solid evidence." Accusations of conspiracy are usually totally lacking in solid evidence, which is why the charge of Conspiracy is levied. If solid evidence were to hand, the accusation would have been something else - price-fixing, theft, slander. In fact, conspiracy is used more often than not in connection with suspicion rather than solid evidence.

Jealousy and hatred (including racism as a form of hatred) are certainly emotions that can be the basis of a conspiracy, but again, I suggest it is only the suspicion not the fact. If you have solid evidence that a group of people are conspiring to disadvantage you because of their hatred or jealousy, then you would deal with their hatred or jealousy. You would try to convince them, prove them wrong or simply leave. There isn't much one can do about a conspiracy because it is only a suspicion - which is why belief that a conspiracy exists is so damaging.

And that is the point. If you believe that a conspiracy is keeping the "Secrets of Success" from you, there is nothing you can do to overcome it, except to stop believing there is a conspiracy. Losers continue to believe in a conspiracy holding you back: Winners change their bellief.

I used to think that their was some secret to success, I didn't think that it was a conspiracy to keep me from moving up in the world though, but after doing a lot of reading, I found out that their were no secrets. There are just certain things that you have to do and believe to reach success. Do you think that a lot of people believe that their is a conspiricy to keep a secret from them ? :hmm: If so what type of secrets do people think are being hidden from them?

Has anyone else found themselves thinking or talking of conspiracies or using conspiracy-like terminology while discussing this economic turmoil?

No, no conspiracy-like terminology this end. But then I don't live in the States where I assume there is a lot of hype & fear about it. I imagine it could be different if I were. I choose not to watch tv/ newspapers - I don't think any outside situation can affect you unless you let it.

I'm also self employed - so I guess my success is my sole repsonsibility. I don't have a boss to blame or complain about. I honestly believe that whatever the outside world is doing, can only benefit my world positively.

And whatever you really, truly in your heart believe is obvious by what kind of world you find yourself living in. Petra X

We've moved on from the first conspiracy, which is that there is some conspiracy to keep you back to conspiracy no 2, which is that a secret is being kept away from you. :nono: Please read the posts carefully and keep this thread alive :( ;)