This is one the best 'wealth creation' books I've ever read. The Courage To Be Rich by Suze Orman. I came across Suze Orman on a talk show about 12 years ago. Her book is brilliant becasue it focuses upon your feelings about money. Money won't come to those who do not feel uncomfortable with large sums (or if it does it will quickly flow out).

I 100% agree that you do need courage to be rich. Sometimes it is easier to blend in & be like everyone else. It takes courage to leave behind old beliefs that no longer serve you.

I 100% agree that you do need courage to be rich. Sometimes it is easier to blend in & be like everyone else. It takes courage to leave behind old beliefs that no longer serve you.

courage is an understatement since the "herd" clearly don't particularly care for rich people

Reminds me of something Whoopi Goldberg once said. She told an interviewer that, when she was on the way up, she swore to herself that she would take friends and family 'up' with her, pull them out of the hardships. As she achieved success she realized she couldn't do that the way she thought she would be able to. She was not going to be able to 'rescue' many of these people by being rich herself.

Sometimes I feel that for a person to reach success,to live one's own values, and never to conform, one might end up living alone without any friends. Personally for me, if a person doesn't want me to succeed, doesn't want the best for me, doesn't accept me in any way, then i would rather not know them. Because it's either that, or to conform. If I just go along with others, then I am putting my life in their hands, and i don't know what others are going to do with that type of authority. :)

Reminds me of something Whoopi Goldberg once said. She told an interviewer that, when she was on the way up, she swore to herself that she would take friends and family 'up' with her, pull them out of the hardships. As she achieved success she realized she couldn't do that the way she thought she would be able to. She was not going to be able to 'rescue' many of these people by being rich herself.

Hmmm, I guess a lot of us feel that way. I know I do. I guess we want so badly to help everyone, we feel helped us on our way up. I suppose it is true though, that we can't change other people's views on money. I know one of my friends in Vancouver has been quite jealous of me since my financial picture changed. She still has the same "poor" mentality she has always had. If she could just see that begrudging others what they have, doesn't help her to get more $$. I need to feel less guilty about it and not help people quite so much. It is one of my detriments, to be sure. Like Scott... I did my best to help him out. He is the son of one of my best friends from Vancouver. I bent over backwards to help him. I spent more money helping him than I should have. Now, it is coming back to bite me - yet again. I take responsibility for my spending and too helpful attitude. Time to reign that in, again!! As I type that, Scott is calling me again, harassing me some more. I'll let the voice mail get it, again. :hopeless: I will learn one day to stop rescuing people!!!

... I will learn one day to stop rescuing people!!!No you won't. Nor should you!

Best to be yourself and help lots of people. You get a certain satisfaction out of doing it, so do it for your own enjoyment. So, some of the people are ungrateful. I don't see that a good reason to stop doing what you know is a good thing to do.

No you won't. Nor should you!

Best to be yourself and help lots of people. You get a certain satisfaction out of doing it, so do it for your own enjoyment. So, some of the people are ungrateful. I don't see that a good reason to stop doing what you know is a good thing to do.

It's not that I want to stop helping people all together. I just need to learn more balance. To stop rescuing people, doing too much for them. Like with Scott... He is now leaving really nasty voice mail messages for me, calling me a "C--t" (rhymes with punt) and a paranoid freak. I bent over backwards to help him, and he is treating me this way. I give TOO much. Everyone who knows me in person, says I am too generous. Being generous is a GOOD thing. But being too generous, is my detriment. I need to learn to still be giving, but not overly so. I need to find that balance.

It isn't a matter of the other person not being grateful. It is when you are so generous, that people start taking advantage of you. I realize I set myself up for that, by being too generous to start with. I will always be a generous and helpful person. I can't not be that way, it is so ingrained in me. I just need to be more careful about not helping others so much that it ends up with me not having enough, because I have helped too many others and wind up hurting myself in the end. I give away too many of my resources, and look after others better than I do myself. That's what I mean. :o

It's not that I want to stop helping people all together. I just need to learn more balance. To stop rescuing people, doing too much for them. Like with Scott... He is now leaving really nasty voice mail messages for me, calling me a "C--t" (rhymes with punt) and a paranoid freak. I bent over backwards to help him, and he is treating me this way.

Does his mother know he talks to you in this way? And why doesn't she give him a smack in the mouth?

I continue to be amazed at the things people do...

Eisho

This is one the best 'wealth creation' books I've ever read. The Courage To Be Rich by Suze Orman. I came across Suze Orman on a talk show about 12 years ago. Her book is brilliant becasue it focuses upon your feelings about money. Money won't come to those who do not feel uncomfortable with large sums (or if it does it will quickly flow out).

I 100% agree that you do need courage to be rich. Sometimes it is easier to blend in & be like everyone else. It takes courage to leave behind old beliefs that no longer serve you.

I haven't read the book, but I will. I experienced rejection from people when I was able to quit teaching English a few years back. I didn't do anything any of them couldn't have done, but fell out of contact with numerous people. Fortunately I have met a lot of people since that are more on my current wavelength so everything is okay.

And I also think that I need to become more comfortable with larger sums of money than I already am. My goal a few years back was to replace my income, which I did, but now I wonder how I would have done if I'd set myself the target of getting a million dollars from the off.

Cheers,

Eisho

Does his mother know he talks to you in this way? And why doesn't she give him a smack in the mouth?

I continue to be amazed at the things people do...

Eisho

Yeah his mom knows, I have told her about it. She is disappointed in him and upset with the way he is treating me. But he is 22 years old now. She has no control over what he does or says. I am sure she will give him an ear full though. Thanks for your words of support Eisho...

This is one the best 'wealth creation' books I've ever read. The Courage To Be Rich by Suze Orman. I came across Suze Orman on a talk show about 12 years ago. Her book is brilliant becasue it focuses upon your feelings about money. Money won't come to those who do not feel uncomfortable with large sums (or if it does it will quickly flow out).

I 100% agree that you do need courage to be rich. Sometimes it is easier to blend in & be like everyone else. It takes courage to leave behind old beliefs that no longer serve you.

I have other books by Suze Orman. This sounds like a good book. I think I will buy this one too. Thanks for posting about it! :thumb:

It's not that I want to stop helping people all together. I just need to learn more balance. To stop rescuing people, doing too much for them. Like with Scott... He is now leaving really nasty voice mail messages for me, calling me a "C--t" (rhymes with punt) and a paranoid freak. I bent over backwards to help him, and he is treating me this way. I give TOO much. Everyone who knows me in person, says I am too generous. Being generous is a GOOD thing. But being too generous, is my detriment. I need to learn to still be giving, but not overly so. I need to find that balance.

It isn't a matter of the other person not being grateful. It is when you are so generous, that people start taking advantage of you. I realize I set myself up for that, by being too generous to start with. I will always be a generous and helpful person. I can't not be that way, it is so ingrained in me. I just need to be more careful about not helping others so much that it ends up with me not having enough, because I have helped too many others and wind up hurting myself in the end. I give away too many of my resources, and look after others better than I do myself. That's what I mean. :o

Hi Catlover

I had exactly the same problem as you. Most of my time and money went towards helping people, and i suffered badly because of it. I can relate to what you said about people taking advantage too. I found it really stressful working fulltime, and helping others as well. I have a friend of mine that has been studying about psychology for about 35 years. He gave me some advice. He said to me that all the things that i am experiencing are being invited by me. He mentioned many reasons why othersothers take advantage of me. 1) Is that I don't have a good relationship with anyone in my family, and i see my friends neigbours as my family, which kind of justifies the lenths i would go to helping others. 2) I had a need for other people's approval (this could be tied to the first one). 3) I had struggled myself, and i was focusing on my past so much that all i could see is people struggling, and i would have a need to help them. 4) I was't assertive enough, and people can sense that when they meet you (when i think about it, I used to help people so much, and i was even apologetic for not being to help them more!). These things got me thinking. I refused to help people for about 4 months, because all this information camee as a shock to me. I thought i was just a really nice person :biglaugh:.

I think that people treat you in accordance to how you let them treat you. You give them a manual, and they act accordingly. You have to accept responsibility for how people treat you. Steve Chandler said is his book reinventing yourself that people have to stengthen their yes muscle in order to stengthen their no muscle. It means that a person has to set goals for themselves to achieve. Fill their time with things that they would like to do, because by doing this, they will find it easier to say no to others. I don't have a problem with helping people anymore, but i take a different approach. First i ask myself if helping this person is going to have a negative effect on my work and on my life, if not, then i help them nomatter what. Since i changed my approach very few people came to ask for my help. I think it's important to show people that you respect your time and efforts. Once you change your beliefs and perspective on helping others, it will project in your body language and vocabulary, and once that happens, you won't have that problem again. It' like walking around with a 'i have time, i have money, take advantage of me' sign written on you.As soon as you change the manual, other people will change. I really feel what you are going through, because i suffered so badly myself. I could write page after page on this subject, but i really need to get somethings done. Maybe we could start a thread about this topic. How much should one help others? How much is too much? Why do people take advantage? How can a person take control over their life, instead of the opposite? Good luck Cat lover :thumb:

Dear saf1,

WOW! Your post really resonated with me. Very deeply infact, right to my core. All the reasons you stated, why you helped others? The exact same for me. It was like you poked around inside my head, went "this is WHY you do it." That is so very true. I hadn't looked at it from that perspective before. I come from the same background family wise. I feel my friends are more like family, than my own family are. I hate to see someone struggling and jump right in there and offer to help them. Not just help them a little, but wayyy too much.

When you wrote "It's like walking around with a 'i have time, i have money, take advantage of me' sign written on you." that was an eye opener!! Like you were, I am not assertive enough. I also apologize for not being able to help more!!

About 2 years ago or so, I started seeing the light in this regard. I realized I was hurting myself inadvertantly by helping others too much. Giving too much, getting used. I also stopped helping people and saying no more. But this whole experience was a back sliding for me. I agree we teach others how to treat us. I learned that a long time ago. I seem to forget that at times though!! :bonk:

I really want to take assertiveness training. You're right when you say I have to show others I respect my time, etc more. I do respect myself, but I am obviously not projecting that in a strong way. Not enough... I think you are right, once I get even more firmer, it will show in my attitude, tone of voice, body language, etc. It will start to become more congruent then.

I guess I get stuck, by trying to be firm in my polite way. Let them down easy approach. Not assertive enough. I need to learn to be assertive and worry less if it sounds aggressive. I have asked a number of people over the years how they thought I had handled something, when I was trying to be assertive. They all said it came across fine. Inside though, it felt more aggressive to me. Did you go through that, when you first started being more assertive too? Does that feeling ever disapate? I know part of it is guilt too. I feel guilty saying no. But you really hit the nail on the head. It is harder to say no to my family of choice, than it is to say no to my family of origin. That is great food for thought! You have given me some good things to think about. Thanks so much for taking the time to post your long reply to me. That is greatly appreciated. Going to go work on changing my manual now!!

I looked at it this way. I was in need of family, firends, and connection. So I was the one with the problem, not the people that came to me with their problems. For someone to upset you, you need to be depending on them in some way. Nobody can hurt you if you aren't depending on them for something. So, your friends depend on you to do everything for them, and you depend on them for connection, compassion, approval, and acceptance. This is an excerpt from Ultimate secrets to self confidence by Dr Robert Anthony

'RECOGNIZING AND BREAKING THE DEPENDENCY HABIT
Dependency is slavery by mutual agreement. It is degrading for both the person who is dependent and the person who is being depended upon.

Both parties are equally lacking in self-reliance for such a relationship flourishes on mutual exploitation.The most unfortunate aspect of dependency is that when you think you are dependent on another individual – you are! You neglect to develop the necessary self-reliance to meet and solve your own problems.'

My first goal became becoming self dependant, not needing to conform, please, need anyone to make me happy. The funny thing is when i started respecting my time, my own plans more. All my supposed friends disappeared. I was on my own, which was proof to me that all the people that called, spent time with me were just using me for whatever they wanted, and it was my fault for hanging the 'use me' sign on. I'm not saying all these discoveries were easy to take, rather the opposite. I was in shock because i thought i was so kind, and that i had so many friends. To find out i was using them, and they were using me, was a big shock, but proved to be 100% true.

I am not accusing you of anything Cat Lover. I am sharing my own personal story with you, so that you don't go down the same route i did. I just felt so much simularity between your story and mine that i thought i should share with you what i have discovered about myself.

I think some people do have a problem connecting with others, and feel that they are outsiders. This lack of connection drives some to go to extreme lengths to reach connection. Sometimes this connection costs too much. I think one should stick true to their values and whoever wants to stick around for who you are, not what they can benefit from you, are the ones that are always welcome and deserve all you can give them. Don't be suprised if all your friends disappear. That's what happened to me, but i found the best friend that i could, and that was me.

I think if a person suffers from lack of connection they should limit their friends and continuously assess how their friends are treating them. If they feel someone is taking advantage of them, they should make clear to them that you are not happy with them . If this continues then you really need to get rid of them. Show people that you are not dependent on them, so they will forget about manipulating you and pulling the guilt card on you.

There is a lovely story that i benefitted from. It's a story from the richest man in Babylon. It's about a donkey that tells the bull to pretend that it is sick in the morning to get out of pulling the cart. The bull did as the donkey said, and the farmer decided to make the donkey carry the load of the bull. This is like you situation at the moment

'If you desire to help thy friend, do so in a way that will not bring thy friend's burdens upon thyself'

Excerpt from The richest man in Babylon

I hope you benefit from my advice. I will continue to contribute to this matter as soon as i get time. :thumb:

It's very enlightening eavesdropping on your conversation. Mainly, I think, because I am quite the opposite. I think I am not helpful enough. But, this to confirm the idea that you teach people how to behave towards you--I am always ready with words of advice or ideas on how someone can fix their problem or improve their situation, make their business grow, etc. I am very short on offering time or money to fix their problem for them. As a consequence, people come to me for advice but rarely approach me in a way that begs for assistance.

That's because of your personality. People will not go that far with you. Because you have given them a manual that says ' don't F with me, don't go there'

Good for you :thumb:

Interesting observations saf1, and quite true I would say.

Acceptance, contribution, yes even dependency to a degree too. That resonated with me.

It is funny you would zero in on dependency. When Scott was here, he acted as if I should be acting like his mom. He would come home from work, see that there was no supper made and waiting for him and sulk. I'd say "Well make yourself something to eat... you have lots of food in the fridge." He would also try his best to take me shopping. It was nice, at first... but it was also kind of like I was having my time get dominated by his needs. I recognized that early on and didn't play that game. I did wake him a couple of times, when he was really late for work. I shouldn't have. But I was doing the "Aunty" thing.

The more I gave, the more he wanted. It started feeling too smothering to me. He wanted to eat together, go shopping together. I have lived alone a long time. I am used to fending for myself. I don't plan on cooking regularly for any room mate or tenant I have. Just so not going to happen! Ocassionally, perhaps. Special days like Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. if they have no where else to go. Cook for them then. He was growing very dependent on me. I didn't like that. It didn't feel appropriate. It was also the start of him using me. He had no money. So, if he took me shopping, he knew I'd buy him the more expensive items he said he couldn't afford. I'd take pity on him and buy him that jar of whatever... then it was let's eat together, so we could combine our groceries, saving him more groceries that way too. It was kind of insidious really... but that feeling was creeping up on me. Especially as my time was getting more and more dominated by his demands and needs. Too much so for a tenant / landlord relationship.

At first, we did nice favors for one another. I'd buy him groceries, he would cook a meal once in a while for us. He'd drive me to get my shopping done, I'd give him gas money. Soon though, it became like he was very dependent on me. I even talked to him about it too. I recognized that he was new in town, had no friends here yet. He did come across one of his friends from BC out here when we were at Walmart. His buddy came over here and helped him fix his car, etc. It was nice to see him making his way here. Even that stuff was a red flag now, I see. It didn't seem to be a red flag to me at the time. I can see now that it was. At the time, it was just appearing as a major time suck for me. I felt increasingly smothered when he wanted me to be more of a mom to him. It just felt strange....

On my end of things, I hate to be dependent on others. I like and want acceptance, etc., too. But I learned early on, there are not many people you can truly count on in life. I learned about disappointment early on in many ways. Too many times. So I think I am probably over generous and grateful to the people who do help me unsolicited. I don't like asking others for help. In the past when I really needed help and asked for it, it wasn't forthcoming too terribly often. So, now I tend to not ask for help - even when I should. Growing up in a dysfunctional family, alcoholism, etc... violence, yes there was a great deal of co-dependency as well. I thought I had dealt with this issue already!! Arrrghhh. Another bit that comes up once in a while that needs adjustment and fine tuning. Thanks for pointing that out.

I can ask for help from a boss, or a stranger if I am learning something new for example. Yet, if it is an emotional need, chances are I do not ask for fear of rejection. Only if there is no emotional tie to it for me, can I feel totally comfortable asking for help. Never put that together before, until I read your post. I usually only dare to ask for help from an intimate partner, especially when it comes to any emotional needs. Usually though, I am without a partner, more than having one. So I usually go about fulfilling my own needs, without help. There are time I ask friends for help. Not too often though. I find my friends look to me for help more, than I do from them. Emotionally speaking, that is.

Thanks for your reply. Yet another bit of food for thought in another direction to think about some more too. I so want and need to take assertiveness training! That will now be on my list of goals for 2009. It is something I have thought about for a while now. I can see now though, it is more systemic than I intially thought it was. Time to refine and adjust a few things again.

It's very enlightening eavesdropping on your conversation. Mainly, I think, because I am quite the opposite. I think I am not helpful enough. But, this to confirm the idea that you teach people how to behave towards you--I am always ready with words of advice or ideas on how someone can fix their problem or improve their situation, make their business grow, etc. I am very short on offering time or money to fix their problem for them. As a consequence, people come to me for advice but rarely approach me in a way that begs for assistance.

That is so cool, and so true Spider! Just from knowing you on the forums for the last 4 years, I would say that is true about you too. A lot of people turn to you for advice as well, yet you are able to draw your line in the sand and not jump in there and rescue them.

Hmmm... okay some of your words are coming back to haunt me now! :eek: :biglaugh:

Remember the whole protective men thing, discussion you helped me with? I am starting to see now, that dependency or co-dependency is partly what that is about now. That isn't necessarily all bad. I guess you should be able to depend on your significant other. I guess I never fully trust a significant other to fulfill my needs, so I just don't tell them what they all are. Hence, when someone is mind reading or can plainly see I need help and offers it, it feels "protective" to me. Not a bad thing! But I need to see it for what it really is. It's a trust thing. If someone starts getting too protective of me too early in my relationship with them... I start to pull away. I deep down believe I can't rely on them. I guess that sets up a challenge for them to prove to me they do care, then I run away some more, till it feels safe to come back and tell them some of my needs. Whoa, that was brutally honest of me. Time I had that insight. I trust my friends more than I trust my significant others. Hmmm. time to look at that one too! I'm having a few epiphanies here. Those trust and boundaries issues come down to my past experiences. Having been abandonded. Don't get too close, don't get too attached. otherwise, I end up being abandonded.

That is no longer true today, and I know that. I guess the base emotions of that though, are still at play in my unconscious.

Since your firends always come to you for help, why don't you test them all, just to see whi is really there for you, and who is in it for the free ride. This is what I suggest. Write down a list of your friends, especially the ones that you help a lot. Think of ways in which each of your friends can help you to improve your life. Write down a list , and call your friends one by one, and ask them for help. From this exercise, 1) you will benefit from the help that you get, 2) you will be able to see who is your real friend. continue to test your friends. If a friend never makes time to help you, then that means they are in there for the free ride. You know the saying 'I friend in need is a friend indeed'. Get rid of all the hastle you are putting yourself through helping people that don't deserve your help. Even when they come to you in need, it will become so easy for you to turn them down after they did the same to you.

Just a suggestion :thumb:

PS: Sorry for the major hijack of the thread here! Some replies here really opened up a floodgate for me. Spider, saf1, if either of you want to reply to me, perhaps my 2008 motivational thread would be better. Thanks for your replies... and the major food for thought. Once again, sorry for the hijack. :o

Personally for me, if a person doesn't want me to succeed, doesn't want the best for me, doesn't accept me in any way, then i would rather not know them. Because it's either that, or to conform. If I just go along with others, then I am putting my life in their hands, and i don't know what others are going to do with that type of authority. :)

Very strongly said! I agree. Most of the friends I had at that time 'dropped off' over a period of 6 months. I couldn't develop new thoughts with negativity hanging around me. And I really struggled with this. The need to to fit in is so powerful. For me the need to be liked was so powerful too.

Hmmm, I guess a lot of us feel that way. I know I do. I guess we want so badly to help everyone, we feel helped us on our way up. I suppose it is true though, that we can't change other people's views on money.

For me people have to want to help themselves. Better to give a hand up than a hand out as is said so often.

I think the proverb ' your only as strong as the weakest link' is so true when it comes to a person's success. Many people spend most of their time complaining about their friends. I don't know what people get out of complaining. One of the things i like about Joe Vitale is that he has the same outlook as me on this point. If you don't like something, then change it to what you like, Joe calls what you don't like ' a spring board'. It is a spring board if you look at it like that, from complaining to a constructive empowering intention. So who is holding you back? Is it time to turn your back on a few people that are holding you back from becoming rich? Do you have the courage to say good bye to all the weakest link or links that are holding you back? At least you know that their is something that you can do to take control over your life, and if you don't take responsibility, who is? It's either be comfortable with all your old friends, or get uncomfortable for a temporary amount of time until you are extremely comfortable ( rich) :lildevil: ;)