Money eludes you because you have a poor attitude towards money. Most people who do not have money look upon money as something evil, and having money as bad. You have heard the sayings — “Money is the root of all evil!” “You have to exploit people to make money!” — and the descriptive phrase, “Filthy rich!” Zig Ziglar calls that, “Stinkin’ thinkin’!” Let's look at a few of them.

“Money is the root of all evil!”
Look around! Look at the poor areas of your town, or any city. Look at the run-down and decrepit parts of town. Isn’t this where you find most drug problems? Where prostitution hides? Where homelessness abounds? Where crime is rampant? It seems to me that the lack of money is the root of evil. What do you think?

“You have to exploit people to make money!”
Look around for people being exploited, people being used. Do you find this in high-value industries, like the oilfields, or in low-value industries, like agriculture? Do you think there are more “exploiters” in the high-paid technology and science fields or in the low-paid domestic services field? And, which of those fields is the richest? It seems to me that you can make more money by hiring the brightest, most highly trained people than by exploitation. What do you think?

“Filthy rich!”
Who hasn’t used this phrase?! There are many similar disempowering terms people commonly use - “obscene profits” (but one can earn “an honest penny,” it seems) - the “almighty dollar” - “hard cash.” If we are constantly telling ourselves that money is “filthy” and “obscene” and “hard,” we will gradually come to believe it and wish to have less of this filthy, obscene commodity!

“Stinkin’ thinkin’!”
You have heard that your attitude determines your altitude. This applies to money as much as it applies to anything else. If you believe that money is scarce (“Money doesn’t grow on trees!”) or that money is tainted (“T’aint yours and it t’aint mine!”) or that having more money means paying more taxes, or that people with more money have more problems, and so on — you can be sure you will subconsciously direct your life away from money.

Any thoughts on this?

Great thread spider :thumb:. I catch myself on a rare occasion comming out with the expression filthy rich. I have been working hard on my relationship with money and have become very aware of any poverty consciousness in myself or in others. I was (and am still a little) guilty of stinking thinking. I did have resentment towards rich people, which I have dealt with now. I am a very kind person, and I always like to help people that need money. It used to make me angry when I saw people that are wealthy not give any sympathy towards the less fortunate, and I resented that, but now I am a lot more careful how I help people who are less fortunate than me, and how I think about wealthy people has changed too :).

Another thing that I suffered from was focusing on lack, the there isn't enough to go round attitude, that's out the window too. There's now ennough money for me and everyone even though I would like a lot of it (:lildevil: this would be the wrong smiley to use) :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

You are absolutely right, Saf. Even what seems like the most innocent remark or action, like picking the wrong smiley, can reveal an undercurrent of "stinkin' thinkin' ness." And it really does pull you away from money (or from anything you say you want, for that matter.) Even things said as a joke.

This is tied to affirmations and self-talk. Ask yourself lousy questions and you will give yourself lousy answers. Make affirmations (even unintentional affirmations) that are unproductive and you will make yourself unproductive. Make disempowering jokes and you will find yourself being disempowerd. It's really amazing to me, when you think about it, that your mind has so much power over your actions.

On the question of money, a simple little remark I had considered benign - "It's only money!" - gradually started eating away at my money-making ability, quite recently. I had never been one for charitable donations, until I 'met' CatLover and we wrote our book together. Her section on Generosity made an impression on me, and I have since found that being generous greatly added to my feelings of wealth. But when I added the phrase after each donation, "it's only money!" I began to notice that I didn't feel so wealthy - as if the donations were reducing my wealth (which is a fairly logical thought, let's face it!) The donations had started to make me feel more wealthy and now were making me feel less wealthy! Needless to say, I catch myself each time "It's only momey" starts to form in my mind.

It took me a while before I was able to come to par with money. Even now, although I'm no where near rich, I sometimes feel guilty for what I make.

Did you Know that the actual quote is:
"For the love of money is the root of all evil.” - Timothy, 6:10.
This is much different, and one which I can accept

It took me a while before I was able to come to par with money. Even now, although I'm no where near rich, I sometimes feel guilty for what I make.
Did you Know that the actual quote is:
"For the love of money is the root of all evil.” - Timothy, 6:10.
This is much different, and one which I can acceptWhile I accept that the actual quotation is as you say, I don't find either acceptable - neither the love of money nor the money itself is the root of all evil. There are plenty of other causes of evil - jealousy immediately springs to mnd.

Surely, the point is that nothing of a negative nature can be the souirce of something positive.

I have been thinking a lot about this type of question recently and where I am right now with my introspection is that I have struggled to admit my greed and my desire to be greedy.

I have a very well balanced lifestyle in one of the richest countries in the world. There isn't a great deal that we can't afford to do, certainly not if we save. I don't really work as such and haven't for a few years. I am able to indulge my interests and pursue long term projects that may or may not bring in money in the future. We travel, eat out, buy new stuff when we feel like it, and so on.

So in theory to want anything more would label me (in my eyes anyway) as being greedy.

And I have been taught not to be greedy.

And that is a problem that I am working to overcome.

Truth is, I don't need any more money, but I admit (now) I simply want it. I am not unhappy or unfulfilled and I don't need money to life me up psychologically.

My attitude throughout life was simply that if I had enough money to do the things I enjoy I would be happy. And I have been and I have done all the things that I wanted to do. Now I want money to improve the quality of the experience (better hotels etc.) and for my kids.

So that's where I am right now as far as money is concerned.

Cheers,

Eisho

Here are a few of the causes for the use of these poverty consciousness phrases:

1) That they originate from false beliefs. These false beliefs encourage the choice of vocabulary and phrases. I think that you will be able to find out what belief is holding you back just by finding out what phrases (if any) you use. Then you can analyse what is behind this. There will probably be a strong belief and negative association to money lingering in the back of your mind.

2) Exposure to people who have a poverty consciousness will use these phrases a lot, and a person might find themselves picking up these phrases and start to use them without knowing what the consequences will be. In movies you will find that these phrases are common, and just being aware of them can help you reject them.

3) Using these phrases can strengthen any existing beliefs and in turn generate a lot more of these phrases in everyday conversations. It's like a cycle: beliefs feed vocabulary, and vocabulary feeds beliefs. This is a cycle that needs to be brocken.

Eisho,

I bargained with Life for a Penny, and Life would pay no more,
However I begged at evening, when I counted my scanty store.

For Life is a just employer, He will give you what you ask,
But once you have set the wages, why, you must bear the task.

I worked for a menial’s hire, only to learn, dismayed,
That any wage I had asked of Life, Life would have willingly paid.


You will have heard that before but maybe the message isn't so clear. To me, that rhyme says that what you expect is what you get. Expect the worst and you will get the worst, expect the best and you will get the best. Law of Attraction aficionados will see the LOA working here but I see that we create what we expect. We create it ourselves, without intending to do so, unconsciously, subconsciously. And that happens because we have taught our subconsciouos mind to believe certain things.

If you believe (ie. have taugfht your subconscious mind) that having sufficient money is good but more than sufficient is "greedy," and you also believe (have taugfht your subconscious mind) that "greedy" is undesirable, your subconscious mind will direct your conscious mind to live within those parameters.

Saf,
I like your use of the tem 'poverty consciousness.'

1) I do not believe there is such a thing as false beliefs. There are only beliefs. If you believe something, it is true - for you. I might disagree with that belief but that doesn't make it false, because you are the believer of the belief under discussion and you believe it to be true. In this case, my belief will be the opposite, which is also true - for me.

So, where does that little bit of mental gymnastics take us?

a) We are compelled to follow our beliefs and to live by our beliefs. Whenever we stray and start to live in discord with our beliefs, we feel uncomfortable and irritable and soon find ourselves gravitating back to our beliefs. We are like water that must always find its own level.

b) I believe that beliefs are neither good nor bad, right or wrong - they are just what they are - beliefs. As it is possible to change one's beliefs, it makes sense to change one's beliefs to something more convenient and more productive. If you believe 'greedy' is bad, what would happen if you believed that 'greedy' wasn't bad? Or you could maintain the belief that 'greedy' is bad, but change what you believe is greediness - like having enough money to stay with Eisho in the better hotels.

Yes, I totally agree with you Spider. It was a mistake, but thank you for correcting it and explaining as well. I'm using this philosophy at the moment actually. I used to spend a bit too freely, and that really affected me in a bad way. These days I'm in a little bit of a tight fix, which may last a few months. So the current belief that i'm using is being frugal is very good, buying anything unnecessary is bad. I had to sell my car because things got a little tight at home. I lost money on the sale. So now I'm back to taxis and buses. I haven't been on a bus for a long time. I find it a bit disgusting to tell you the truth, but this belief that I have now that spending money whenever unnecessary is bad, is helping me to be very economical. Hopefully in a month or two max, I can buy myself a new car and get back to living the life i'm used to.

A few moths ago, I decided that I was going to improve the quality of everything around me, to give me a more wealthy feeling. At the moment his would have a negative affect on me with my current financial situation. So, as soon as I am back on my feet, I can redefine what necessary means, and change my priorities to suit my new goals.:):):)

Eisho,

I bargained with Life for a Penny, and Life would pay no more,
However I begged at evening, when I counted my scanty store.

For Life is a just employer, He will give you what you ask,
But once you have set the wages, why, you must bear the task.

I worked for a menial’s hire, only to learn, dismayed,
That any wage I had asked of Life, Life would have willingly paid.


You will have heard that before but maybe the message isn't so clear. To me, that rhyme says that what you expect is what you get. Expect the worst and you will get the worst, expect the best and you will get the best. Law of Attraction aficionados will see the LOA working here but I see that we create what we expect. We create it ourselves, without intending to do so, unconsciously, subconsciously. And that happens because we have taught our subconsciouos mind to believe certain things.

If you believe (ie. have taugfht your subconscious mind) that having sufficient money is good but more than sufficient is "greedy," and you also believe (have taugfht your subconscious mind) that "greedy" is undesirable, your subconscious mind will direct your conscious mind to live within those parameters.

Your observations are absolutely correct Spider. And I agree with you also that there is no LoA at work here. I have limited myself by listening to (no doubt well intentioned) advice. It has taken me several years just to get to this stage.

One of the key turning points actually happened several years ago while I was still teaching English. The overtime rate in the company I worked for was very good and I remember a good friend of mine saying that he was doing overtime because he needed the money (not true) but he quickly corrected himself and restated it saying he wanted the money. I admired his honesty - not so much with me - but with himself. Developing this honesty is a daily task for me and has been for some time. Even when I began trading stocks and was making good money (40-50,000 yen a day at times) and watching that daily amount grow as I had more money to invest I was very happy with the amount but was still prepared to settle for it. Why not? It was more than I was paid as an English teacher (more than twice, but all done from the comfort of my home) and I didn't even really need all the money I was paid as an instructor.

In recent years I have raised my level of expectation and indulged myself far more than I would have done previously. I haven't been stupid but I haven't stopped myself spending either. It has made and continues to make a big difference. A key lesson for me also was in Rich Dad Poor Dad where Kiyosaki talks about the crucial difference between 'I can't afford it' and 'How can I afford it?'. So simple, but no-one ever explained that to me before.

Okay, gotta go training now, but a very interesting meditation.

Cheers,

Eisho

The overtime rate in the company I worked for was very good and I remember a good friend of mine saying that he was doing overtime because he needed the money (not true) but he quickly corrected himself and restated it saying he wanted the money. I admired his honesty - not so much with me - but with himself. Developing this honesty is a daily task for me and has been for some time.

Cheers,

Eisho

Great thread Spider. Eisho I think you bring up a really good point about greed. It has been strongly engrained in me that to have enough money to 'live comfortably' is acceptable. But to have an incredible amount of money is seen as bad or wasteful.

I bought into this societal belief then ditched it as it doesn't help me. I don't care what others think about money. I absolutely love money. The more the merrier. By 'love' I mean I really honestly appreciate it, respect it, look after it, I circulate it, I don't hold or hoard it. Basically I treat money as if it has emotions, like a really good friend. Since having a better relationship with money, more has been naturally been attracted. Money loves being with money.

Of the three reasons why money eludes you -
-- Believing the world, or The Universe, or Providence, or other people, are keeping you down or holding you back;
-- Believing there is a secret to becoming successful;
-- Because you have a poor attitude towards money;

...this last one is the most treacherous. It is sly and tricky. We often acknowledge its presence and then dismiss it with "Oh, it was a joke!" We often say things in jest just to appear clever. We might make a joke, not to make someone else feel happy but to make ourselves feel superior. And, in so doing, hurt someone.

Laughter is a wonderful thing. It makes up for a lot of life's inconveniences. Laughing, it is said, is as good as a physical workout. It relieves much of life's distress. But laughter is a troublesome friend. It can fool us into thinking that the words have no meaning, or that the idea expressed is false, or that the pain inflicted was unintentional.

Worst of all, though, is that, under the guise of frivolity, we sometimes express ideas that undermine our own good thinking. One that I often used was, "money is tainted - it'ain't yours and it'ain't mine!"

What silly, jokey remarks do you use or have you heard? Let's tear them apart and expose them for what they are.

What silly, jokey remarks do you use or have you heard? Let's tear them apart and expose them for what they are.

You mentioned earlier "it's only money". I hear many people saying somthing similar, "it's just money" - like money is unimportant & something to be disregarded. To me this a really powerful little phrase that needs to be eliminated.

Indeed. How would a friend feel if, when they walked into a room, you were to say, "Oh, it's only Bill!" or "It's just Mary!" They would soon stop entering any room you were in, I think. Treat people carelessly, and you will lose them. Treat money carelessly and you will lose it, too.

Any more?

I'm not exactly sure how or where the following thoughts fit it with what you're looking for, but after reading the discussions on people's attitudes towards money - especially "greed" or and abundance of it - compelled me to share something.

I don't know how many times in the last year I've "apologized" or "made excuses" for having purchased such a large house for me and my sons to live in after the divorce (4,000 sq ft). Actually since shortly after we moved there people would make comments like "such a big house for just 3 of you...". Like I should feel GUILTY or something for buying it! I bought it because it was right for US and I could afford it (at the time). We had grown accustomed to a large home, as the one our family had was the same size (and my ex-hubby now lives there by himself!).

It made me feel horrid to try to explain why I was justified in buying the house - as if I should even HAVE to justify it!! But there was always that dead silence after their comments...

The truth is, I believe I was born to be wealthy. I've had this belief for quite some time. Maybe it's because I have expensive taste, and am always drawn to the finer products in a store, and just love the finer things in life, and would love to make a HUGE financial difference to a charity(ies) some day. I'm not sure what it is, but I DO know I am not going to apologize any more for what I have!!

Something Zig says on his Over the Top audio, he lists all the things he likes that money can buy him - nice suits, dinners at nice restaurants, vacations in exotic places - and doesn't apologize for liking these things. But he LOVES the things money cannot buy - peace, love, friendships, etc. (don't have the book or tape handy). And I couldn't agree more. I think there is nothing wrong with being financially abundant, and nothing wrong with enjoying the finer things in life. As long as you don't forget about the things money cannot buy.

Awake - Step One
Don't explain yourself to the general populace when it comes to how you've spent or prioritize your money. If you want a 4000 sq ft home and they think it's too much, then have some stock answers for that, like:
"Oh, well, we like it."
It helps keep their messages from sinking in.

Spider, I think this thread idenitifies a cultural issue, but it's not a panacea, and I don't think the problem exists in isolation for people. People who have issues around money generally have several issues.

I've always believed that money is a good thing and never paid much attention to the cultural messages of 'root of all evil', etc.. But that didn't make me rolling in riches. I made my mistakes in other places. (And I also believe that circumstances can work heavily on people. Not a popular stance in this neighbourhood, but then we can argue about that in some other thread.)

Of course it's not a panacea, Corrine, and of course it doesn't exist in isolation - but how can you eat an elephant? ....One bite at a time!

.... I think there is nothing wrong with being financially abundant, and nothing wrong with enjoying the finer things in life.... ...I don't know how many times in the last year I've "apologized" or "made excuses" for having purchased such a large house .... It seems to me pretty clear from the above that you DO think there is something wrong with being financially abundant and enjoying the finer things in life. Otherwise, you would not have felt the need to apologize or make excuses.

It's all very well *saying* you feel there is nothing wrong with it, but when you *act* as if something is wrong with it, I'm pretty sure yout subconscious is giving the game away.

It seems to me pretty clear from the above that you DO think there is something wrong with being financially abundant and enjoying the finer things in life. Otherwise, you would not have felt the need to apologize or make excuses.

It's all very well *saying* you feel there is nothing wrong with it, but when you *act* as if something is wrong with it, I'm pretty sure yout subconscious is giving the game away.

Actually what was happening is I was allowing myself to be "bullied" into apologizing. I stuffed my true feelings away and put on a face. Sold myself to the lowest bidder. Played their game. I hated it, because I knew and know that there is nothing wrong with financial abundance. But there is something wrong with not being true to oneself, which I wasn't doing.

If you say so.

If you say so.

:rofl: You don't believe me! But that's okay, I believe me.

Here's another memory that I have been ridding myself of related to money and abundance.

When I was a teenager in school, I guess around 17 or so, me and my friends were choosing which universities to apply for and which courses to take. One of the questions that kept on being asked by people was 'What do you want to be: rich or happy?', as if the two things were mutually exclusive. I can remember saying 'Both' whenever asked, but nevertheless I think it can't have not had some effect on me.

Cheers,

Eisho

Here's another memory that I have been ridding myself of related to money and abundance.
When I was a teenager in school, I guess around 17 or so, me and my friends were choosing which universities to apply for and which courses to take. One of the questions that kept on being asked by people was 'What do you want to be: rich or happy?', as if the two things were mutually exclusive. I can remember saying 'Both' whenever asked, but nevertheless I think it can't have not had some effect on me. How have you been ridding yourself of this memory, Eisho? What have you been doing to eliminate the belief?

You mentioned earlier "it's only money". I hear many people saying somthing similar, "it's just money" - like money is unimportant & something to be disregarded. To me this a really powerful little phrase that needs to be eliminated.

Indeed. How would a friend feel if, when they walked into a room, you were to say, "Oh, it's only Bill!" or "It's just Mary!" They would soon stop entering any room you were in, I think. Treat people carelessly, and you will lose them. Treat money carelessly and you will lose it, too.

Any more?

I have been focusing on stinking thinking for a few months now, and I have been trying to find phrases and beliefs that are holding me back. I think i have found one. I have noticed that I look at small amounts like they are nothing. I might say it's only 200. Should I just say 'it's 200' ? Anyone have any suggestions?

How have you been ridding yourself of this memory, Eisho? What have you been doing to eliminate the belief?

Ever since I got into NLP I have been using techniques from that to rid myself of the emotions attached to memories. I find that NLP doesn't so much remove the memory, but rather it detaches the emotional response linked to it. I use meditation to uncover these memories (many of which are buried very deeply) but while meditation itself can be effective, in the right circumstances I find NLP far quicker. I use it with clients and though I know it doesn't work for everyone, when it clicks, it really clicks.

I have also been changing my spending habits as I mentioned in an earlier post. Another technique I use when in the midst of an experience is to just mentally quieten myself and consciously take in the feelings that I am experiencing rather than just experience them without reflection. I express gratitude inwardly to myself, recognize that I am happy and associate that happiness with the situation that I am in.

Something else I find effective is to visualize the lives of my children well into the future and to plan backwards from that future date.

Cheers,

Eisho

I have been focusing on stinking thinking for a few months now, and I have been trying to find phrases and beliefs that are holding me back. I think i have found one. I have noticed that I look at small amounts like they are nothing. I might say it's only 200. Should I just say 'it's 200' ? Anyone have any suggestions?
I have always been quite frugal - a bit of my upbringing that I have been happy to keep. The way I maintain that - and give a child's habit an adult's reasoning - is to ask the question of everything - Would I rather have the item or the money I would spend on it?

I do this for everything - big things and small things - Would I rather have a new car or would I prefer to have the $40,000 in my bank account? Would I prefer to have that $6 beer ($1 beer + $5 of ambience) or would I rather go home and drink a $1 from my own refrigerator and keep the $5 in my pocket?

Watching one's expenditure is all very well, but you have to live life as well. For someone who habitually overspends, this system might not work, but for someone like me who has a tendency to hoard, it helps me enjoy my money without joining the ranks of the overspenders.

I have always been quite frugal - a bit of my upbringing that I have been happy to keep. The way I maintain that - and give a child's habit an adult's reasoning - is to ask the question of everything - Would I rather have the item or the money I would spend on it?

I do this for everything - big things and small things - Would I rather have a new car or would I prefer to have the $40,000 in my bank account? Would I prefer to have that $6 beer ($1 beer + $5 of ambience) or would I rather go home and drink a $1 from my own refrigerator and keep the $5 in my pocket?

Watching one's expenditure is all very well, but you have to live life as well. For someone who habitually overspends, this system might not work, but for someone like me who has a tendency to hoard, it helps me enjoy my money without joining the ranks of the overspenders.

Thaks Spider for your input. I am past my spending days now. But I feel that I look down a bit on amounts that I feel are small. I say ' it's only ____'. I have read the millionaire mind, and in it the author mentions that a person shouldn't look down on any amount of money, nomatter how small. He even said that he picks up a penny he finds on the street and celebrates. Do you think it is healthy to look at a sum of money as a lot or little? do you think this will have an affect on the amount of money one can save?

Do I think it is healthy to look at a sum of money as a lot or little?

Hmm. I don't think I do that - to me, it is the amount that it is - a mere fact. I don't think of it as a lot or a little. So, do I think it is healthy for someone else? For me "little" or 'a lot" is dependent on what am I getting out of the expenditure. That $40,000 car might be little for the amount of enjoyment I will get out of it while the $6 beer is a lot more than I am prepared to pay for the ambience on offer, while another place may charge $10 for their beers and I find this ambience worth it.

Maybe it will have an affect on the amount of money one can save. I'm not sure I have the answer for *you.* The danger, perhaps, is thinking that little amounts of money can be wasted. I never waste money. But that is only because each expenditure has to pass my test - Would I rather have the item or keep the money?

Thanks Spider for your help. I think that I don't give money the importance that it deserves. I think I look at small amounts and don't give them the importance that they deserve. Because money amounts over time, I think that money, whether it be a small amount or a large amount should be respected. I've started to appreiciate money a lot more, and I am willing to prospone buying a lot of unnecessary things because of that. I am going to focus a little bit more on the small amounts though, and remove only ____ from my vocab :)

As for picking up a penny, I don't. Although I can feel myself hesitate as if am about to. I usually think something along the lines of, "I don't need that penny. It won't make any difference to my situation but it may make a difference to the next person's situation. I'll leave it for them to pick up."

Brilliant thread Spider and a lot of what you said recently was driven home to me recently. I seem to have an unhealthy disdain for money or wealth which is silly really for what i earn. I guess a disrespect for it would be a better term
I have two reasons for it
My father has an unhealthy Respect for money or more security i guess is the term. Even now he has paranoid scitzafrenia and is starting to get Alzimers ad to top it all off he has a respiratory disease from years of smoking. So he has pretty much locked himself up in the house 24/7
All he does is eat sleep and study the stock market every single day
He never vists his children or his grandchildren all he does is study the market and with the recent events has given me even more grave concerns for his health.
He was allways like this when we were kids, extremly tigh with money unless it came to my older brother. I used to get the privilege of shopping with my mother to go buy my brother brand new nike and Adidas sports wear then we got to go to the second hand shop to buy my clothes.

Second time was when i got divorced, at the time i was 27 i owned three cars a nice house which i worked my ass off for only to end up with nothing.
SO i relaise i need to turn this around now and this year is the oe i chose to do it
Once again thanks for the thread it got me thinking:thumb: