Someone here described another "success guru" as having cult type following. I notice Anthony Robbins has the same sort of thing, but I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read his stuff or taken his courses. I read his first book a long time ago, Unlimited Power. Frankly I wasnt that impressed.

Given the mindset of our society, I think most any "success guru" or "success author" or, frankly, any public figure, is going to develop a cult like following. I have three adolescent daughters who have strange devotion to the likes of Justin Timberlake, Ashton Kutcher, the shirtless guy model on the Abercrombie and Fitch shopping bags, etc.

Billy Graham once told of the fact that he never went anywhere alone, always having at least one member of his entourage present with him.... to go to a public restroom, to take a hotel elevator, or virtually anwywhere else in public. He did so because of the number of kooks who practically stalked him. I've heard this from other public figures as well.

I say all this to preface my point: Once you achieve some level of national or international fame, whether a "success guru", entertainment or sports figure, renowned minister/preacher, or even a serial killer, you will attract a certain element that could be branded as a "cult like following". I wouldn't discount the value of the success guru's message because how some marginal personalities respond to his/her teaching.

As for my personal opinion, I am not a big fan of Tony Robbins. I think he is a decent, entertaining speaker, I think he has a few good ideas, but how he has conducted himself in a prior business situation showed me that he is out for NUMERO UNO. Additionally, I think Tony's message is a bit "new-agey" for me.

I find superior value in the teachings of guys like Ed Forman, Brian Tracy, Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, the late Earl Nightengale, and others. And yes, if you look into their lives, you'll likely find similar fan responses that would indicate a degree of "cult-like" following. Many might believe that Zig Ziglar's "see you at the top" philosophy is "cult-like". To each his own!

Christianity defines a cult as a group that espouses false teachings, or religious teachings that extend beyond the Holy Bible as the all inclusive source of the Word of God. Examples: Jehovah's Witnesses with their "additional scriptures" of Watchtower. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, with their Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants, that hold equal standing(in their eyes) with the Holy Bible.

Transferring that thought to the teachings of "success gurus". While I don't totally embrace the thoughts and ideas of a Tony Robbins, I don't question the sincerity of his message and I don't consider his message to be "cultic" in nature.

There are dozens of "success gurus" out there. Why? Because each of their philosophies touch a certain segment of the populace. If we all were reading off the same page in the hymnal, we'd only need one success guru out there. So, find a "success guru" with whom you "click" and learn from his/her style, ideas, and message. While Tony Robbins doesn't appeal to you (or me), I previously listed several whom I do enjoy. Listen to several. I believe you'll find one whose message hits close to home for you as well. I also urge you to check the thread in this forum on success books. I think you'll find discussion on several resources that will propel you in the right direction.

Has anyone got any background? I've never heard of this guy.

This is him (http://www.nightingale.com/tAuthors_AuthorDetail.asp?AuthorID=124&WCU=38B5C4B4576A595731). Did you see Shallow Hal? He was the guy who convince Hal that he like girls for their inside instead of outside. :D

Great post Jon!

I've never watched "Shallow Hal", I'll have to add it to my list of DVDs to get as I like Jack Black. :D

I have only read one of his books... Awaken the Giant Within, and thought there was some very good advice. He also seems to be a very upbeat author... I could really sense the enthusiasm in his writing.

I have read his book Awaken the Giant Within and I have also listened to his 30 Day Audio Course called Personal Power II. I was impressed by them. He is a very good speaker and he has a lot of good points. I don't think that what he offers is the answer to everything, but I did find a lot of useful things in his book and his audio course. I use it to supplement other education sources. To keep things in perspective I try to expose myself to various different teachers and philosophies.

I would definately recommend his material, and would also recommend taking the Landmark Forum and if you are in sales, Zig Ziggler, although I am less impressed by Zig personally. I think if we expose ourselves to a variety of information and technologies, we can chose what is best for our own particular life.

I have just bookmarked his forum for future reference.

I have read his book Awaken the Giant Within and I have also listened to his 30 Day Audio Course called Personal Power II. I was impressed by them. He is a very good speaker and he has a lot of good points. I don't think that what he offers is the answer to everything, but I did find a lot of useful things in his book and his audio course. I use it to supplement other education sources. To keep things in perspective I try to expose myself to various different teachers and philosophies.

I would definately recommend his material, and would also recommend taking the Landmark Forum and if you are in sales, Zig Ziggler, although I am less impressed by Zig personally. I think if we expose ourselves to a variety of information and technologies, we can chose what is best for our own particular life.

I find success gurus tend to have a lot in common in what they speak and write about, with each having their own emphasis and twist on things. I can't really say I have found any that I hate, but some that are of less value that others. I find I usually at least get one nugget out of each one, with some being more. At the very least, I get a different twist on things. The only ones I would dislike were ones that speak about how you get ahead by running over people. There is a book by Prometheus Press I may not like that much (speak about how being competitive is a good thing), but I plan on reading it anyway (I paid for it), just to get a perspective on what people with a secular materialistic view of reality think on things.

As far as Robbins goes, I find he brings a version of NLP to the table. It is one of many tools I hope I can get my hands on. I also find that his speaking style and approach is one I like to emulate a bit. Oh, and I do like Zig. Yes, Zig is corny, but I found he had some good advice, and his use of yarns is something I would like to use if I do presentations. :-)

- Richard Hutnik

It isn't the Messenger.
It's the Message.

Tony has studied from many who we call "masters" at what they do, including most mentioned in this thread. He has studied all parts of life, and all parts of business, and has helped or inspired hundreds of thousands to find what works for them.

That he doesn't appeal to all is not surprising. Nobody does.

As has been suggested .... study from all. Everyone has something to offer. Even if you think they don't.

True. Often the same thing explained a different way will suddenly make sense. Or perhaps when you hear it a second, third, or even millionth time, you are finally ready for that piece of knowledge.

There have been times when I have read or listened to one person, and suddenly a light turns on and I say to myself: "Oh, so THAT'S what they were talking about in such-n-such course or book."

why does everybody want to emulate someone else?

selling success in an immense business where there is a great audience that is lining up to buy-in. there is no difference to the guru of sales to the guru of god. they are both preaching the same message. "BUY-IN TO ME" if you buy me, you are buying my wares. is this not true?

we are all sales people, everyone has a message to get across, an opinion. so you sell (convey) it to the next person.

the most important learning in life is to recognise when you are wrong and to accept and change. never be rigid. change is eternal, change is constant.

there is death and taxes, but there is a hell of a lot more change in your life that has greater impact, so embrace it.

why does everybody want to emulate someone else?

there is no difference to the guru of sales to the guru of god. they are both preaching the same message. "BUY-IN TO ME" if you buy me, you are buying my wares. is this not true?Only to the degree that you say that is so. Some set themselves up to be gurus, others have that tag and title thrust upon them.
I see far more "Gurus" delivering their message to realise who you are, and to BE YOU! Are there those that dictate the buy-in? Sure there are. Are there those that want you to buy-into you? More and More all the time.
.


the most important learning in life is to recognise when you are wrong and to accept and change. never be rigid. change is eternal, change is constant.
I would suggest the most important learning in life is to be the True You. Don't look for whats wrong with your life, admit it and change. Look instead to what is right with your life, and enhance that. Will that encompass change? Absolutely! All the time! Does that mean you were "wrong"? No. It really means that you are accepting a different truth for yourself today, now, than you did yesterday.

Throughout history, Great Minds have espoused a Great Truth with different words ......

Physician - Heal Thyself
To Thine Own Self, Be True
Look First to the Mirror of Your Soul

As a Physician, one would be foolish to attempt to heal without training. So we seek teachers to learn from.
As a Child, we seek guidance from our elders, as well as our peers.
As a Soul, we seek awareness from ....... well, that all depends on your philosophy.

Be YOU. BE Your Best YOU!
If that means learning a little something from a "Guru", self-professed or other, then go and learn! The time will come when the old maxim "When the Student is Ready, the Teacher will Appear" becomes "When the Teacher is Ready, the Students will Appear" becomes your reality.


Whether you accept the Guru tag is up to you.

why does everybody want to emulate someone else?

I for one want to emulate others that are successful because I am not. My family and friends arent either. If I took my raising to heart I would believe that to succeed would be selfish and wrong. Blah. I want to be successful so I watch those few people in my life that are successful and the people that taught them. I don't know where else I would start.

Melody

thanx manta, you are correct when you say, "look at what is right in your life - and then enhance it". you have given me a new learning. thankyou.

melody, you are successful already. there is nothing more in life that you can choose so much as your attitude.

You're wlecome Endeavor!

I will add that you too are correct when you say to to see what isn't working, and make the changes necessary to support what you want.
As Humans, we are sooooooo rooted to whats wrong that I have found it better to first help people Focus on their Brilliance, because that helps make their subsequent observations more ForwardFocused to what can be done to change and Transform that former negative into a huge positive, instead of going the way of "woe is me ......:( "

We are all Bright Beautiful Beings ...... we just forget that on ocassion.

short story.

i was walking out of a business meeting with a friend who owns a small franchise of 6 or 7 hairdressing salons, and to me, he was successful.

i said to him just prior to jumping in my car, "i wish i was successful", and he replied,
"look at what you are wearing (R.L. Polo), look at the car you are driving(Merc.Benz), and take a look around you. You are successful.

but to me, being successful is being out of debt.

perception is a funny thing.

...... but to me, being successful is being out of debt.
perception is a funny thing.So ........ are you selling the car or the shirts first? ;)

Seriously, what steps are you taking to make that happen?

If you have a plan for that, you are already sucessful. But if you keep that perception, that belief that you must be out of debt to be successful, could that be a limiting factor if in future you wanted to make a major push to expand your operations, and that would mean to borrow to make that happen? Could that, even on an other-than-conscious level, hold you back from taking that action? It probably would, because we will do just about anything to remain consistant with our beliefs about who we are.

We're silly creatures, us humans!

So just consider ...... do I have a plan to be debt-free, or instead, do I have a plan to have a controlled and intelligent level of debt that is assisting me and my businesses thrive and flourish?


Heres to your BEST level of Success!

Wow, what a great post there Manta! You definitely broadened my perspective with that one

Thanx Tom. Sometimes, I'm not just a pretty face! :yup:

I liked the one about selling the car . :biglaugh:

To remain consistant is like being in a rut and a rut is a grave with the ends kicked out of it.

I have Anthony Robbins' Personal Power tapes. They have a lot of great insight into why a person does some of the things they do and how to change their thinking and habits. It might help with the debt thing.


Just remember there are two kinds of debt Good and Bad. Bad is the car. Good is the rental house that makes you money each month after the bills are paid.

So many nice colors. :bouncy:

I for one want to emulate others that are successful because I am not. My family and friends arent either. If I took my raising to heart I would believe that to succeed would be selfish and wrong. Blah. I want to be successful so I watch those few people in my life that are successful and the people that taught them. I don't know where else I would start.

Melody
People who are resigned and cynical often are jealous of someone they know who becomes successful, so they discourage and sometimes sabatoge it. It is because they don't believe they can be successful, and if you did somehow get successful, then in their world you would be better than them. I have seen this many times.

That is a myth that I grew up in as well, although not nearly as bad as some people I know. It has taken me a long time to get past that because for a long time I too believed that success was selfish and wrong. Now I realize that not only is it not selfish and wrong, but it is out God given right and duty to be successful, happy and prosperous... and furthermore that it is actually possible for everyone to be successful in this world, and we should help others become successful as well.

The best thing you can to for yourself, your family, your community, and the world is for you to break out of that negative thinking and be successful... and when they ask you about your success, tell them that if you can do it, so can they.

I think there is a lot to be learned from anyone with the level of insight that people like Tony Robbins have in regards to personal development-even if you don't like that persons stye/technique.

Someone had mentioned that people become jealous of other people success and I agree with that. That's why they (in many cases) discount the techniques taught by these type of speakers. It's there way of not taking accountability for their own lack of success. (for the record-success doesn't have to be money, it can be anything that is important to you)

I have used several of Tony Robbins courses and I have to say that I thought they were great :D But they are only a tool. If I gave you a $5,000 table saw your capentry would only be better than that of a $50 table saw if you used it! A lot of people seem to think that knowledge is power, and I agree to a point. IMO applied knowledge is power, knowledge in and of itself is just potential power. It's up to you to release it. :bouncy: A few people in this thread mentioned some other authors/speakers and I agree with all of what I saw. Earl Nightengale and Zig Ziggler are both great. I would also suggest Dale Carnagee and Tom Hopkins. For some interesting insight on finance and business check out Robert Kyosaki.

If I gave you a $5,000 table saw your capentry would only be better than that of a $50 table saw if you used it! Please address it to

MantaRayz
1111 Inatrance Blvd
Suite 11
Sunny San Diego CA 92111

THANX!

:thumb: will do.

As long as there are people that think they need guidance from external authority then there will be the propensity for those people to fall into the cult-syndrome. I'm sure even Tony Robbins has a cult following - whether he wants one or not. Some people that attend his seminars are simply addicted to the emotional highs from hearing him speak.

I listened to his audio product back in 1989 and I picked up some good points, but overall, I didn't feel right about his suggestions to manipulate oneself into believe something or to break through psychological barriers. Back then, I simply had a gut feeling that there was something not right about some of the things he mentioned.

At the end of 2001 while reading Neo-Tech publications, I realized that some of Tony's suggestions are geared toward the split-brain frame of mind. With the split-brain or bicameral mind, the emotional, highly influential and highly creative right brain can be easily duped by directives from the logical left brain. When the directives are not based on reality, the tendency is for the right brain to create problems and virtual "realities" in the mind that don't exist in reality. This is the basis for all mystical thinking.

For the last several thousand years, religious and political leaders have brain-washed and manipulated the bicameral minds of people in order to control us, to make us give them our hard earned values, and to even die for their idiotic causes. I'm convinced that it is time to begin a new era of self-authority and wide-scope honesty for everyone (of course, only if you want to!) I’m proud to say that I'm one of a growing number of people spearheading the drive for total freedom and prosperity for the individual.

Knowing that I am my own authority, plus knowing that I am doing many of the things that I love to do and creating values, in addition to me being completely honest with myself about reality and being totally honest in business and with other people - those are the basic things that motivate and influence me to live a life of purpose and to bring me happiness. I don't need to manipulate myself in any way.

At the end of 2001 while reading Neo-Tech publications, I realized that some of Tony's suggestions are geared toward the split-brain frame of mind. With the split-brain or bicameral mind, the emotional, highly influential and highly creative right brain can be easily duped by directives from the logical left brain. When the directives are not based on reality, the tendency is for the right brain to create problems and virtual "realities" in the mind that don't exist in reality. This is the basis for all mystical thinking.


Interesting. You should post a few links to information about that. :thumb: I'm sure that I'm not the only person that would be interested in reading a little more about it.

Interesting. You should post a few links to information about that. :thumb: I'm sure that I'm not the only person that would be interested in reading a little more about it.


http://www.successvibe.com/showthread.php?t=320

I’m glad you asked. Here is a link to the Neo-Tech thread:

http://www.successvibe.com/showthread.php?t=320&page=1&pp=10

Here are some of the links provided in that thread:

http://www.neo-tech.com/index.php

http://www.neo-tech.com/bpparty/index.html

http://www.neo-tech.com/pax-b1/index.php

http://www.neo-tech.com/thestory/

http://cosmopolitanparty.localgroup.net/

And also:

Knowing that I am my own authority, plus knowing that I am doing many of the things that I love to do and creating values, in addition to me being completely honest with myself about reality and being totally honest in business and with other people - those are the basic things that motivate and influence me to live a life of purpose and to bring me happiness. I don't need to manipulate myself in any way.

GregfolioSo GregFolio, You don't think that Creating Values, and Rules for Life and Business, and choosing the direction of your lifes Purpose is in any way manipulating oneself? Manipulation is something one does with tools, and what you've just described is using a set of tools (your Mind, and the knowledge and expereince contained there) to create and forge the direction of your life.

That says manipulation as big as I've ever heard!

Perhaps 15 years ago, you were operating with a set of tools that, for whatever reason, didn't like what the messanger was saying, even though the message made some sense. To direct your life is to be in control of your life, as well as many of the circumstances that seem to be outside of ones control.

Perhaps it's the meaning of the word.

manipulate
control
direct
use

These 4 words mean basiclly the same thing, but are ususally said with different emotion, based on the meaning used. or ascribed.

I say Hurray for the people that have chosen the ability to manipulate themselves out of the morasses of the masses, and have instead chosen to live self-chosen and directed lives. Such lives are typically much fuller and richer, as well as more impactful on others lives too!

Hi, MantaRayz

The better word that I should have used is "tricking" oneself into believing something or "force-feeding" the mind with positive affirmations in order to break through psychological barriers. I was using the negative definition of the word manipulation. I agree, manipulation has a broader meaning and it can even be used to describe the creative process, i.e. manipulating the paint on canvas, and manipulating (or orchestrating) one's actions to achieve goals. When I use that term to describe people that manipulate themselves or others, I typically mean it in a negative way.

If someone feels the need to use mumbo-jumbo, mystical processes, or even pounding the subconscious with scripted positive affirmations in order to convince them, and it works, then cool. I hope the best for anyone, regardless of the tools (or manipulations) they use. However, I found those particular techniques to be a waste of time for me.

I applaud people that can integrate their thoughts and actions based on reality and make positive changes to enrich their lives - without tricking themselves into behaving and achieving.

I manipulate reality to my advantage in order to bring myself happiness and add value to my life and to the lives of those who like my artistic creations.

My goal is to integrate my right and left brain functions into a supportive, fully functional unit. By doing that and by knowing as much about reality that I can know, I can take objective and logical steps to bring my goals in to being.

Gregwordio

I think that the use of the word manipulate can be a little misunderstood.

IMO if the intentions are good then the methods are irrelavent. When certain techniques are used to take advantage of someone then I think that the word manipulation would be appropriate-but not when they are used in a positive direction.

So Gregshiftio,

I'm curious of what process you use to manipulate your reality for your purpose? It's obviouly not one of hocus-pocus or trickery of mumbo-jumbo, or even a vial of purple fluid.

What is different with the process you use? Without trickery or manipulation? What is the determination of Reality you use, vs the rest of the worlds view of Reality?

he uses magic pixie dust :biglaugh:

well, I'm certain it's just a little more than that, and I am interested in what he has to report. Without reading the whole of neotech materials, or referring links. i'd like a first hand account, since Greg says it's different than 'tradition' approaches.

well, I'm certain it's just a little more than that, and I am interested in what he has to report. Without reading the whole of neotech materials, or referring links. i'd like a first hand account, since Greg says it's different than 'tradition' approaches.

What exactly are you saying MantaRayz? I'm finding it difficult that someone can have difficulty relating to REALITY so much. Reality is what we can sense, despite what movies like "The Matrix" would have us believe. There is a real reality, the one that Neo finds himself in when he wakes up, and there is no way to control it other than interacting with it in a physical way. Ok, we can manipulate people's thoughts and therefore manipulate their actions, which shapes reality, but at the end of the day all we're doing is causing certain chemical reactions to happen in their brains.

It's a bit of a deep subject so I'll try to stick to the point. We manipulate our reality by our actions. There is nothing magical about it, all we do is make things happen. That's the whole point of us being here. And by being concious, we have the power to make decisions. The way we control reality is by being able to control these decisions - and not have them controlled by outside force or guidance. I think Greg will say a bit more on the matter, but that's it in a nutshell.

:bonk: :hmm: :cookoo: :p :confused: :hopeless: :yikes: :banghead: :bonk:

Cemiess,

It wasn't me that initiated the 'not based in reality' and 'different thinking' line. That is what I'm attempting to get clarification on. It appears that semantics, the words, the jargon, are once again getting in the way of effective communication. I have no challenge relating to reality, and just like Greg, and probably you, and most everyone on this board, I create reality.

When Greg says " ..... leaders have brain-washed and manipulated the bicameral minds of people in order to control us, to make us give them our hard earned values ..... ", I'm more than just a little curious what exactly he means by values. To me, Values are part of what people live by and believe by, and it sounds here more of an exchange-based commodity, and from that frame, I see very little around me of people giving their values. Perhaps there is another word that works there, or is he, are you saying that leaders take away a moral part of Humans Core to further their own agenda?

THAT is the reality I am asking about. As well as the statement 'creating reality'. Thanks for your 'Creating Reality thru Action' statement. Absolutely! Which to me starts in the Mind. Bicameral or not. So THAT is a point I'm askng about ..... it seems Greg says his process is different. I'm only asking how.

Directed Thought = Directed Action! Thus, a Creation of Reality.

Thanks again for your reply Cemiess!

~ Stan ~




The Matrix? Maybe! Maybe not!

all the little 'smilies' were are real fun touch! thanks for your wishes!

Cemiess,

It wasn't me that initiated the 'not based in reality' and 'different thinking' line. That is what I'm attempting to get clarification on. It appears that semantics, the words, the jargon, are once again getting in the way of effective communication. I have no challenge relating to reality, and just like Greg, and probably you, and most everyone on this board, I create reality.

When Greg says " ..... leaders have brain-washed and manipulated the bicameral minds of people in order to control us, to make us give them our hard earned values ..... ", I'm more than just a little curious what exactly he means by values. To me, Values are part of what people live by and believe by, and it sounds here more of an exchange-based commodity, and from that frame, I see very little around me of people giving their values. Perhaps there is another word that works there, or is he, are you saying that leaders take away a moral part of Humans Core to further their own agenda?

THAT is the reality I am asking about. As well as the statement 'creating reality'. Thanks for your 'Creating Reality thru Action' statement. Absolutely! Which to me starts in the Mind. Bicameral or not. So THAT is a point I'm askng about ..... it seems Greg says his process is different. I'm only asking how.

Directed Thought = Directed Action! Thus, a Creation of Reality.

Thanks again for your reply Cemiess!

~ Stan ~




The Matrix? Maybe! Maybe not!


I think what Greg means by values, being a Neo Tech reader myself, is the exchangable commodoties you talk about. Those exchangable commodoties that we work hard to create and then trade to earn our livings, are named values because they bring value to people's lives (which is why they are willing to buy them, and which is why the better they are the richer you will become, as more people will want them - hence the beauty of competetive business - it increases values for all of us). These values are that which the "leaders" have brainwashed us into giving them - in the form of taxes - indirectly they are taking our values because they are taking our profits.

A free government with no FORCED taxes would allow business to thrive, bringing massive values to everyone.

If you're interested in this kind of politics, whether you're American or not, check out this site:

http://www.localgroup.net/cosmopolitanparty/

This is, by the way, related to success - as it will remove restrictions based on businesses and stop the government crippling businesses with their laws and taxes.

If someone makes their life a success, whether they do it through Anthony Robbins or Neo Tech, what difference does it make? Both have been accused of cult followings, yet both have successfully transformed the lives of many for the better.

:hopeless:

Just a pre-note for this reply: I mean "you" and "yourself" in a general way, and I'm not pinpointing anyone in particular.

The main difference I see between a set of tools that suggest being honest with myself and another set that suggest tricking or overwhelming myself in order to overcome mind blockages or whatever is that one method upholds honesty and human potential, and the other method is basically saying that there's something wrong with human nature and for whatever reason, we can't be trusted. Good points and suggestions are found in most philosophies and toolboxes, but do you really think your core essence will put up with being manipulated in a coercive manner, no matter how sugar coated, hyped up, emotionally charged, or pretty the delivery mechanism is?

I despise anyone that tries to force me to do anything, and I completely reject the suggestion that I force myself - even if the end result is in my best interest. I also refuse to force myself in any manner no matter what I want to accomplish. Let's take an example in children. They will usually fight tooth and nail in order to reject coercion and they will usually do the opposite of what adults demand. Deep down, they know something that has been literally programmed out of us by external "authorities". At an early age we are taught to trust adults and to sacrifice our self-authority.

I will always take the supportive, trusting, and honest way to succeed in my life. I trust myself 100%.

As I mentioned before, if you like a methodology and it works for you, then have at it. If farther down the road you find yourself feeling less about yourself and you don't know why, then try being 100% honest and 100% trusting in yourself in all respects.

The people that can take the bits and pieces of any toolset and truly transform their lives and they are truly excited about living every day, then those people are at least being somewhat honest with themselves and they have learned to reject the bad bits in the philosophies that they have delved into.

:yup:

well, I'm certain it's just a little more than that, and I am interested in what he has to report. Without reading the whole of neotech materials, or referring links. i'd like a first hand account, since Greg says it's different than 'tradition' approaches.

I've been through all my posts and I don't see where I said it differs from "tradition[al]" approaches. :hmm: Here's a link to the thread where I hope I've answered your questions:

http://www.successvibe.com/showthread.php?t=321&page=2&pp=10

It's in your "What the Bleep Do We Know" movie review post.


The author that describes in the best way what creative process I use is Robert Fritz in his books, "The Path of Least Resistance" and "Creating".

In a nutshell, he states that structure determines behavior and structural tension moves us toward goals and equilibrium. He doesn't mean the stressed-out tension we usually associate with the word, but rather the tension that pulls us to or away from what we have currently and what we want.

For an example of when we cannot achieve something we want, imagine giant rubber bands that pull you toward what you want but also pull you in the opposite direction toward a conflicting goal or belief.

He suggests that we pick an end result as a goal, and to make sure it is not really a step in the process to some other ultimate goal - although, you can look at the "steps" as milestone goals if you want.

After a goal is formulated in your mind, then pick the next best step to achieving that goal - which, when starting out will of course be your first action step.

Once a step is taken, then re-evaluate your current reality regarding the goal. Was the action step taken effective in moving you toward the goal or moving you away from it? If it did not move you toward the goal, then readjust and take a slightly different action step toward the goal.

When a step is successful in moving you toward the goal, then evaluate your current reality again and take the next best step.

Granted, some evaluation about what is the next best step may take some time or it may be accomplished in a fraction of a second.

Now in all this, I use pure objective thoughts in order to evaluate reality. I don't consult with astrology to make sure all the planets are in my favor, and I don't pray to any deities to look favorably on my goals and to help me in my quest. If traditional methods call for these types of mystical approaches, then yes, my method differs greatly. :thumb:

Tony Robbins is good because he gets you motivated. In terms of actually giving you life-changing information, I'm not too sure. There are many who are better. However, Tony is the man with the most results, so to speak, so if you want an introduction into the field, go to him. If you know something already, pitch in at a higher level.


Someone here described another "success guru" as having cult type following. I notice Anthony Robbins has the same sort of thing, but I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read his stuff or taken his courses. I read his first book a long time ago, Unlimited Power. Frankly I wasnt that impressed.

I think Tony is one of the best self-improvement guys out there. Did his programs, been to his seminar, Unleash The Power Within. The seminar was incredible, unlike anything you can imagine. I suggest buying his audio programs...he is an amazing orator, he gets you hooked, he's funny as hell, he really gets to you. Reading a book is good but hearing him speak is phenomenal.

I for one want to emulate others that are successful because I am not. My family and friends arent either. If I took my raising to heart I would believe that to succeed would be selfish and wrong. Blah. I want to be successful so I watch those few people in my life that are successful and the people that taught them. I don't know where else I would start.

Melody

Good for you!

Imagine the people you will be able to help, also. The people who believe successful people are selfish are generally the ones who imagine they would be selfish if they had something of value. They project their own sins on everyone. There is probably some jealousy in there for some as well.

Good luck on your journey,

Lane
BecomeMotivated.com

The main difference I see between a set of tools that suggest being honest with myself and another set that suggest tricking or overwhelming myself in order to overcome mind blockages or whatever is that one method upholds honesty and human potential, and the other method is basically saying that there's something wrong with human nature and for whatever reason, we can't be trusted.


Or perhaps our perceptions of things cannot always be trusted? For example, many Germans during WW2 trusted themselves, their peers, and their leader that they were doing the right thing. They trusted that they were superior to other races and perceived the Jews and Communists as enemies of the state. Yes, all based on propaganda, but someone had to believe it to create the propaganda.

On a smaller scale, look at our perceptions of circumstances we find ourselves in, and our reactions to them. Some people sit in rush hour traffic enjoying the time to think, relax, listen to music, etc. While others sit and contemplate murdering the person in front of them. :yikes:
My point being that how people react to circumstances and situations is often based on learning... conditioned stimulus, conditioned response. What is wrong with changing the response to the stimulus? Eventually, it becomes automatic and honest.


Good points and suggestions are found in most philosophies and toolboxes, but do you really think your core essence will put up with being manipulated in a coercive manner, no matter how sugar coated, hyped up, emotionally charged, or pretty the delivery mechanism is?

It does already. That is what advertising is all about. It is also what addictions are about. Your core essence succumbs to the allure of the alcohol, tobacco, crack, etc. and believes that it cannot live without it.


I despise anyone that tries to force me to do anything, and I completely reject the suggestion that I force myself - even if the end result is in my best interest.

Isn't this a bit like cutting off your nose because you don't like Kleenex?


I also refuse to force myself in any manner no matter what I want to accomplish.

Does this mean you do not go to work in the morning if you are tired or simply don't feel like going to work? Everybody forces themselves continually. It is just a matter of whether or not we recognize we must force ourselves to do some things.



Let's take an example in children. They will usually fight tooth and nail in order to reject coercion and they will usually do the opposite of what adults demand. Deep down, they know something that has been literally programmed out of us by external "authorities". At an early age we are taught to trust adults and to sacrifice our self-authority.

Thank God. Had I not yielded my authority to my parents, I would be dead. Most kids would. After all, it is a parent's authority that teaches a child not to play with matches, to look both ways before crossing, to not eat the Comet under the sink :biglaugh:


I will always take the supportive, trusting, and honest way to succeed in my life. I trust myself 100%.

Without trying to proselytize, may I quote Proverbs 12:15?
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise."

Regards,

Lane
BecomeMotivated.com

Without trying to proselytize, may I quote Proverbs 12:15?
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise."

Regards,

Lane

Lane you've only made three posts and I like you already. :D

Lane you've only made three posts and I like you already. :D

Thank you.
This seems like a good board with some good people.

Or perhaps our perceptions of things cannot always be trusted? For example, many Germans during WW2 trusted themselves, their peers, and their leader that they were doing the right thing. They trusted that they were superior to other races and perceived the Jews and Communists as enemies of the state. Yes, all based on propaganda, but someone had to believe it to create the propaganda.

I guarantee you that you will not be able to trust your perceptions if you think in mystical modes. You may think that you can but it is impossible. Mysticism is based on lies and made-up assumptions.

You've pointed out a good example of mystical thinking perpetuated by external authorities in order to control the split-brain of the bicameral (http://www.viewzone.com/bicam.html) thinkers. Hitler and his goons were able to convince many Germans that there were "problems" with their economy and "threats" to their fake genetic superiority because they were able to convince the creative right brain of those Germans to trust the lies of external authority. Mystical thinking is creating problems or virtual scenarios in the mind that don't exist in reality. Mysticism is the worst affliction and scam to ever be forced upon us for the last 3000 years. Tony Robbin's program is riddled with mystically based assumptions and techniques. I reject his entire program and approach regardless of how few good points he has contained within. I can derive those same good points from other people that are not as plagued by so much mystical crap.


On a smaller scale, look at our perceptions of circumstances we find ourselves in, and our reactions to them. Some people sit in rush hour traffic enjoying the time to think, relax, listen to music, etc. While others sit and contemplate murdering the person in front of them.

My point being that how people react to circumstances and situations is often based on learning... conditioned stimulus, conditioned response. What is wrong with changing the response to the stimulus? Eventually, it becomes automatic and honest.

No, it doesn't necessarily become honest. We are taught to think mystically which is conditioning by external authority - which includes religious leaders and scam-artist leaders and people in positions of "authority". Mysticism is dishonesty at its worst.

You all have a choice, react and/or respond to situations, or create and influence your situations. Reacting and responding without thought or logic are typically mystical modes. Creating and influencing by using logic, intuition (not the mystical kind), and creative effort will always get you farther and bring more successful results. However, as I will always state, do whatever suits you and use whatever methods you want.


It does already. That is what advertising is all about. It is also what addictions are about. Your core essence succumbs to the allure of the alcohol, tobacco, crack, etc. and believes that it cannot live without it.

Maybe in your core essence, but not mine. My definition of core essence is obviously not even close to your definition. My core essence strives for happiness and honesty. It's mystical thinking, which includes paranoid delusions, illusions, and self-induced hallucinations that influence people's bicameral mind (http://www.viewzone.com/bicam.html) to succumb to addictive behaviors. Furthermore, advertising may trigger your reaction to buy something or to crave something but it does not have those affects on me. I laugh at the ridiculous mind-games and freebies that marketers try to use and include to trigger us to make brainless purchases.


Isn't this a bit like cutting off your nose because you don't like Kleenex?

Again, maybe in your mystical world you may feel that way. I really do completely reject anyone's suggestion that I force myself - even if the end result is in my best interest because I don't need to force myself. Do you understand that concept yet? If there are two basic methods of achieving a benefit - one of using force and the other using logical, non forceful processes and I choose the later, then no, it is not analogous to cutting off my nose because blah, blah, blah.


Does this mean you do not go to work in the morning if you are tired or simply don't feel like going to work? Everybody forces themselves continually. It is just a matter of whether or not we recognize we must force ourselves to do some things.

Wrong. I do not force myself - ever.


Thank God. Had I not yielded my authority to my parents, I would be dead. Most kids would. After all, it is a parent's authority that teaches a child not to play with matches, to look both ways before crossing, to not eat the Comet under the sink.

Most parents of the past and still many parents today do not give their children enough responsibility or any credit for their mental capabilities. They assume that their children will kill themselves, and that is only true for those cases where parents are severely lacking in educational experience. I choose to educate children without force, without threats, and without punishments. I choose to explain to them the possible drawbacks, dangers, or pitfalls of certain decisions – again without threats of punishment or acting like a dictator. Maybe you were a problem child and your parents realized that they needed to be forceful dictators over your every move because you simply could not figure things out for yourself. Personally, I choose to give children much more responsibility and much more leeway in making their own decisions. That does not mean I'm going to stand by as a child grabs something dangerous so they can get the full experience. That is a ridiculous assumption on your part that I would even imply that.

Wrap your limited mystical mind around this concept: There's a major difference between forced coercion and unbiased, pleasantly delivered education.


Without trying to proselytize, may I quote Proverbs 12:15?
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise."

Why bother asking since you're going to do it anyway. You're free to proselytize or quote whatever buybull book you want within the parameters that Tom has stated in his forum posting rules.

I can see by the particular quote that you used, that you assume that I reject all suggestions and counsel, which is completely wrong on your part. I take in what I see as good and I reject everything else. Just because TR has a couple of good points in his programs and propaganda, that doesn't make him an expert or authority on everything else he mentions. There’s a gigantic difference between using what is acceptable from other people and falling into the sheeple mode – blindly thinking everything that is said is valid.

Here, I'll leave you with one of the few worthwhile quotes from your favorite mystical book:

"Salute no man along the highway." -- Jesus

Of course you'll interpret that quote differently than I do. To me it means:

Don't consider any person you meet or pass to be of higher authority than yourself. I think it is one of the best expression of self-authority ever written. Throughout history, leaders and conquerors - whether they were kings, clergy, or Roman soldiers - have made their subjects either salute them as they passed or the people were made to take a submissive posture by lowering the head and gaze.

I defy external authority, which is why I like that quote.

I totally agree with this:


Most parents of the past and still many parents today do not give their children enough responsibility or any credit for their mental capabilities. They assume that their children will kill themselves, and that is only true for those cases where parents are severely lacking in educational experience. I choose to educate children without force, without threats, and without punishments. I choose to explain to them the possible drawbacks, dangers, or pitfalls of certain decisions – again without threats of punishment or acting like a dictator. Wrap your limited mystical mind around this concept: There's a major difference between forced coercion and unbiased, pleasantly delivered education.

hello there,
As a naturopath/relaxologist/massage practitioner/psychotherapist/personnal development/Reiki practitioner , i noticed all those so called life changing "become what you really want to be" gurus's technics are based on the same psychotechnics used by the sects....lessoning to people, offering them support, empowering their innerself & self confidence, and then "showing them the way to the new them" , at usually a cost ...
it seems to be a scheme working much more in the english speaking culture giving much more important thoughts to the be rich to be someone than the latin speaking countries (france,italy,spain,latin america,south america) where the gurus would be much more turned to the spiritual worries of the people.
In either ways, it all about attracting unhappy people , persuading them to change their life for the better with this technic.
The right thinking would be to follow nature evolution, take every change in your life as an opportunity to learn something new about you and your environment, and be happy...or as would say Lao Tseu or Socrate "if you are (still ) unhappy...what are you doing about it ???
please let me know your comments or knowledge on that thought as it is just my own thought based on personal experiences.
take care all
Emmanuel :tiphat:

:wave: Hello Emmanuel.

My physician practices homeopathy; I have never heard of naturopathy. I appreciate the concept, and as a half-a**ed purist, I try to avoid traditional medical practices. In other words, I try to heal myself before I have to see a doctor. I believe in preventive medicine, so I try to do healthy things and eat healthy foods. I am glad you mentioned the naturopath, because I did some reading on it, and it really interests me. TY

Well I'm jumping into this thread late, here's my 2 cents,

I think Tony Robbins is GREAT! I went to one of his seminars (UPW) 2 and half years ago without having a clue what to expect. At the end of 4 days, I gave up smoking (used to be a 2 pack a day girl) and I had greater clarity on a lot of subjects. It's true, a lot of his seminar you HAVE heard/read before but it didn't always make sense OR it emphasises how right you were about something.

Plus TR makes you aware of ways that people appeal to your emotions and explains the practicalities of human behaviour/psychology. eg. You understand how advertisers use the sub-modalities to sell you products (including which politicians to vote for!)

I have to say my mind was initially opened by Robert Kyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad. Since then I've read heaps of books, been to TR seminars (never read his books actually - found them hard to do) and started up groups of peer groups that are all still going strong. Plus have become more successful financially.

TR for some is the be all and end all. For others, he's the start of a long journey. For others, he's a stepping stone mid-way along a journey. For those already enlightened and psychologically-wise, he's a peer.

No one is perfect, but some of us do some things better than others.

Well I'm jumping into this thread late, here's my 2 cents,

I think Tony Robbins is GREAT! I went to one of his seminars (UPW) 2 and half years ago without having a clue what to expect. At the end of 4 days, I gave up smoking (used to be a 2 pack a day girl) and I had greater clarity on a lot of subjects.

I have to read about him. I had heard of him and his philosophy, but have never delved into any of his books or seminars. I gave up smoking 9 years ago, and it was probably the hardest thing I have ever done. If it was easy for you (four days), then I say the seminars and books are well worth the time and expense. Congratulations on being smoke free.

:(

Boy I wish I could give them up. I smoke a pack of menthols a day and a half pack of regulars. It is really bad because I have to work with clients who don't smoke and the smell offends them. I like to go clubbing at night and I don't want to give that up if I try to quit. There is smoking in the nightclubs and it would be hard for me to quit when everyone is smoking.

I used the Nicorette gum, Alpha, and it really helped me get over the psychological habit. After a year, I took three days to cold turkey on the Nicorette. I pretty much had to avoid being around smokers the first year. If you can make it past that year, it is mostly clear sailing. :thumb:

I used the Nicorette gum, Alpha, and it really helped me get over the psychological habit.


:yup: Thank you for the advice. The gum works and I was only nervous for the first two days and now I am doing great. The gum is expensive.

:yup: Thank you for the advice. The gum works and I was only nervous for the first two days and now I am doing great. The gum is expensive.So is Gas.

Consider the expense of NOT using the Gum, or any other methods of ridding yourself of menthols. (menthol AND regular ciggi-butts? EEEEEWWWWWWUUUU!)

So is Gas.

Consider the expense of NOT using the Gum, or any other methods of ridding yourself of menthols. (menthol AND regular ciggi-butts? EEEEEWWWWWWUUUU!)

:biglaugh:

I am not laughing at your expense, Alpha, but I have to compliment this post.

I love Tony Robbins. I find what he says really hits home with me. And he is kind of cute.

So is Gas.

Consider the expense of NOT using the Gum, or any other methods of ridding yourself of menthols. (menthol AND regular ciggi-butts? EEEEEWWWWWWUUUU!)

I am going to nicotine anonymous meetings along with chewing the gum. It is hard because I have smoked for many years and the habit is strong with me.

I do not think it would be fair to debate this issue on the basis of personal opinions, although it might seem convenient.
Also, using particular labels in a discussion tends to have color the debate and skew perceptions.

What am I saying?

Firstly, I might have read Anthony Robbins' books and attended his workshops. The opposite can be true too.
In a balanced discussion, it would be wise to look for objective evidence as much as possible and most of the time.

Secondly, assigning the labels 'success guru' and 'having cult type following' affects perceptions and opinion (as I have already stated0.

I propose therefore that instead of relying on subjective intepretations, let us rather ask the question: "Does the work of Anthony Robbins add value and enhance any one's life?" and "Does he produce the results he promises?"

This is what I think.
Someone here described another "success guru" as having cult type following. I notice Anthony Robbins has the same sort of thing, but I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read his stuff or taken his courses. I read his first book a long time ago, Unlimited Power. Frankly I wasnt that impressed.

Cults and Gurus:

There's two areas that I think need to be explored more when discussing people like Tony Robbins or any 'guru' that suggests various or different ways of 'thinking'.

1- Choices
2- Objectivity

Another area that deserves more comment is the 'bicameral mind". I really don't disagree with Greg's comments as I feel he is totally aware that he is choosing and not some outside force...whatever that force may be. I do have a concern with how our bicameral brain can be objective.
Any comments?

hold to your first instincts. No one says he is not a good public speaker and he repeats topic of the day stuff well but there are many, much more effective courses, I beleive. Excuse the butcherd syntax.jdl

Someone here described another "success guru" as having cult type following. I notice Anthony Robbins has the same sort of thing, but I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read his stuff or taken his courses. I read his first book a long time ago, Unlimited Power. Frankly I wasnt that impressed.